303 stained my headlamps?

[IceQube]

I think it depends on where the lenses are coming from. I can only speak to personal experience, but my Japanese cars started to fade whereas my German car (VW, nothing special) still looks as clear as the day it was purchased new. No idea how they differ other than possible material quality.

My Japanese cars which are fading are a 2010, 2012, and a 2013. All started to fade at about the 5 year point despite having and LSP applied since I purchased them. I know polish them 2x a year to keep them clear.

What cars were they? The Japanese ones, specifically.

[Belo]

respectfully, there are still tons of cars that came with HIDs or were retrofitted with them. Sure LEDs are the future, but the point about how they compare with regards to heat generation vs halogens stands.

[Klasse Act]

I have to say that there is a lot of very good information about lighting technology in this thread, so at least something good has come from it.

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[Desertnate]

What cars were they? The Japanese ones, specifically.

The 2010 is a Mazda3 hatchback, the 2012 is a Honda Fit, and the 2013 is a Toyota Highlander. The Mazda3 and the Highlander have halogen projector headlights, but the clouding/hazing is occuring at the top of the assembly and nowhere near the focal point of the beam where you might think heat would be a contributer.

None of them are behaving in the same way. The Mazda lenses slowly started to yellow and then started to get cloudy. The Highlander simply started to turn really cloudy, but it happened rather suddenly compared to the Mazda. The Honda I only bought about 18 months ago and nothing is uniform about those lenses. The cloudiness on both lenses is not uniform in where it is appearing and neither side is the same, unlike the other two cars.

This is compared to my VW GTI which is a '14 I picked up in fall of '13. The lenses on that car are as clear as they were when new. It has xenon HID's but they are inside a projector beam housing, so the heat shouldn't be much different in this scenario from a halogen projector beam housing.

Each vehicle has recieved the same treatment of identical products across their lifespan in my possession.

[Desertnate]

respectfully, there are still tons of cars that came with HIDs or were retrofitted with them. Sure LEDs are the future, but the point about how they compare with regards to heat generation vs halogens stands.

Agree. I never appreciated how much hotter halogen lights were than HID's until I owned a car with HID's. In the winter the halogen bulbs will keep at least a little opening at the focal point from being totally frozen over while you're driving. HID's in my experience, not so much. They'll freeze over as if the lights aren't even on.

[IceQube]

The 2010 is a Mazda3 hatchback, the 2012 is a Honda Fit, and the 2013 is a Toyota Highlander. The Mazda3 and the Highlander have halogen projector headlights, but the clouding/hazing is occuring at the top of the assembly and nowhere near the focal point of the beam where you might think heat would be a contributer.

The clouding/hazing is occurring at the top because of UV exposure. That's the part that's directly hit by the sun in midday.

Heat is a factor in degradation, but not as much so as UV.

None of them are behaving in the same way. The Mazda lenses slowly started to yellow and then started to get cloudy. The Highlander simply started to turn really cloudy, but it happened rather suddenly compared to the Mazda. The Honda I only bought about 18 months ago and nothing is uniform about those lenses. The cloudiness on both lenses is not uniform in where it is appearing and neither side is the same, unlike the other two cars.

Different plastic chemistries. More anti-yellowing chemicals tend to increase the likelihood of cracking. Less anti-yellowing chemicals reduce the likelihood of cracking at the expense of being more yellow when old and degraded.

This is compared to my VW GTI which is a '14 I picked up in fall of '13. The lenses on that car are as clear as they were when new. It has xenon HID's but they are inside a projector beam housing, so the heat shouldn't be much different in this scenario from a halogen projector beam housing.

Less heat from the HIDs and I don't believe any VWs use a high-beam as a DRL but instead a small, low-power lamp, so the car isn't running around in the day with both heat from the DRL+UV from the sun attacking the lens.

respectfully, there are still tons of cars that came with HIDs or were retrofitted with them. Sure LEDs are the future, but the point about how they compare with regards to heat generation vs halogens stands.

The HID retrofit market is thankfully small because it's frankly just a bad idea, and the industry is flooded with pseudoscience and illegal products. Illegal, as in federally illegal. These HID retrofits aren't allowed anywhere on US soil for good reason.

But people circumvent federal laws just to make a quick $. The industry hides their shipments of illegal HID retrofit kits by mislabeling the boxes, so that at port, no one notices. Instead of writing something like "HID kit" on the boxes, they'll label them as "automotive lighting," and most authorities will be none the wiser. Also, they've started putting illegitimate "DOT" labels on their products.

CBP Targets, Intercepts Illegally Imported HID Headlamps | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

Federal Register
::
Panda Power LLC, Denial of Petition for Decision of Inconsequential Noncompliance

The HID retrofit industry is frankly disgusting. They are marketing federally illegal and dangerous products to unknowing consumers by circumventing our border protection laws.

[Desertnate]

Less heat from the HIDs and I don't believe any VWs use a high-beam as a DRL but instead a small, low-power lamp, so the car isn't running around in the day with both heat from the DRL+UV from the sun attacking the lens.

In the US, VW does use the high beam bulb running at a lower setting for non HID housings. At least that is how it was implemented on the Mk6 Golf's and Jetta's. I believe the Passats and Tiguan's did as well. I think I know about the lamp you mention and I've seen some models with an empty hole in the reflector where that bulb goes, while others don't have it at all.

On my car, I have a bi-xenon housing and LED's for the DRL's. Heat from the lighting is considerably less than a halogen housing, but the UV exposure is no different. Based on the fading patterns I've seen, I'd think the UV exposure is a bigger problem than heat from the lamps.

[Belo]

The clouding/hazing is occurring at the top because of UV exposure. That's the part that's directly hit by the sun in midday.

Heat is a factor in degradation, but not as much so as UV.



Different plastic chemistries. More anti-yellowing chemicals tend to increase the likelihood of cracking. Less anti-yellowing chemicals reduce the likelihood of cracking at the expense of being more yellow when old and degraded.



Less heat from the HIDs and I don't believe any VWs use a high-beam as a DRL but instead a small, low-power lamp, so the car isn't running around in the day with both heat from the DRL+UV from the sun attacking the lens.



The HID retrofit market is thankfully small because it's frankly just a bad idea, and the industry is flooded with pseudoscience and illegal products. Illegal, as in federally illegal. These HID retrofits aren't allowed anywhere on US soil for good reason.

But people circumvent federal laws just to make a quick $. The industry hides their shipments of illegal HID retrofit kits by mislabeling the boxes, so that at port, no one notices. Instead of writing something like "HID kit" on the boxes, they'll label them as "automotive lighting," and most authorities will be none the wiser. Also, they've started putting illegitimate "DOT" labels on their products.

CBP Targets, Intercepts Illegally Imported HID Headlamps | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

Federal Register
::
Panda Power LLC, Denial of Petition for Decision of Inconsequential Noncompliance

The HID retrofit industry is frankly disgusting. They are marketing federally illegal and dangerous products to unknowing consumers by circumventing our border protection laws.

you're so passionate about this that I'm now curious about why. And put into a proper projector housing, there's nothing dangerous with about a HID.

[IceQube]

And have you done the computer modeling and used a goniophotometer to verify your statement? Many HID systems designed by actual engineers and not random forum users emit dangerous levels of glare, such as the ones on the Chrysler 300.

There's nothing safe about an unqualified person in their home garage stuffing a random projector behind a random lens. If actual engineers can't always get it right, what makes the average Joe any more likely to get it right?

Fact of the matter is that many "clear" lens will influence the beam. Many times in headlamp development, the entire design must be revised because the lens creates unwanted internal reflections. How are you going to test for and eliminate these unwanted reflections with a random projector, a random lens, and no modeling software or measuring equipment? Can your eyes tell the difference between 700 and 1000 candela? These are the glare point threshold values. Do you know where the glare points are even?

And the "hid only belongs in projectors" meme needs to be buried. There are plenty of exemplary HID systems from Lexus that use reflectors rather than projectors. Early LS400, ES330, IS300, GS430, etc.

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[Klasse Act]

This car, the 2005 Mercury Montego, came with non-projector HIDs, almost 20 years ago and before this car, the Lincoln Mark VIII!