I sure hope Rupes figures things out in the MKiii LHR model

[Mike Phillips]

Rupes is obviously aware about the backing plate rubbing the shroud. They do it purposely.

I explain the first reason for this in my RUPES how-to book and I'm sure I've shared the reason why on this forum more than once.

Makes zero sense, but they have their reasons.

Makes zero sense to us American detailers but makes sense to RUPES.

Easy fix with a washer.

And then completely changes the original design and intent for the tool by the engineers.

I was told that the friction on the shroud was a safety feature required in Europe.

That's part of it. I was originally told one reason and then later told a second reason that tied together with the first reason.


First I was told the should creates drag to limit rotation and support oscillation. I was told this my Marco D'Inca, the head engineer for RUPES back when he attended my Detailing Bootcamp Class.


VIP Guest Marco D'Inca from Rupes at Autogeek's Detailing Boot Camp Class








Then I believe it was Jason Rose that told me the shroud was a design feature for the way, or one of the ways the tool would be used and that is like this,

A technician removing defects out of car paint on an assembly line would buff on the defect and then hold the tool away from the panel so they could wipe and inspect to see if the defect or sanding marks were gone and thus they could move onto another defect or the car could continue down the assembly line.

For this brief moment the tool was moved away from the body panel, the shroud would add drag and prevent the tool from buzzing the pad up to full speed and slinging splatter or throwing the pad off. So the design was for a way of using the tool completely foreign to American "detailers".

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Using a washer will have zero negative effects of performance. It will INCREASE performance. Of course Rupes won't recommend it, as it's not OEM. Other than safety or splatter issues, why in the world would you not want to get full potential rotation out of the tool with a washer? No reason would ever convince me otherwise.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Autogeekonline mobile app

[DETAILROOKIE]

Using a washer will have zero negative effects of performance. It will INCREASE performance. Of course Rupes won't recommend it, as it's not OEM. Other than safety or splatter issues, why in the world would you not want to get full potential rotation out of the tool with a washer? No reason would ever convince me otherwise.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Autogeekonline mobile app

Washers can help long throw polishers, if they didn't, Griots wouldn't include one with theirs. Like everyone said, it all depends on the user's preference. I didn't use washers in my G15 because I didn't feel that it needed it, but I do use it on my G21. I just purchased a Rupes 15MKII, so I will do some experiments to see which feels more comfortable for me.

I recommend everyone should try the machine with and without the washer to decide what works best for them. Different strokes for different folks.

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[Todd@RUPES]

Hey Trevine, first thank you for being a customer and second, thank you for your open and honest feedback. I will do my best to address some of your concerns and I hope you find the information useful.


“However, I recently replaced the old style backing plate with the new blue one and wished I had turned to the forum much sooner as it has solved a lot of my issues with pads sticking adequately.”

With the launch of the Mark II, RUPES switched a gray-style backing plate which had a little less side-to-side (lateral) grip, but had less peal (vertical) grip. This allows the pad to dismount and mount easier.

When the ES tools were originally launched in 2011, RUPES understood that this was a new polishing concept and that it would require technique adjustments for the user to get results. The power of the ES model was chosen carefully to prolong pad life knowing that some technicians would use too much pressure, angle the pad, and attempt to muscle out paint defects. This muscling creates a lot of heat in the backing plate / pad interface, so we went with a high-grip hook and loop.

With the Mark II, the market had been using to large-orbit random orbital polishers for a few years, and a rash of Chinese copy cats where hitting the market. Thus, the Mark II gave more power to the end user.

The design of the BigFoot foam polishing pads (flared outward, height, and center cooling hole) were all designed to handle the stress of imparted by a large orbit, reduce heat build up in the foam, increase polishing action, and prolong pad life. The trend at the time was smaller, flatter, UFO-ish disc pads that died quickly when subjected to large orbits.

If you see a pad that shares a similar profile to a BigFoot Pad and has a center-cut hole, that design has been copied by the aftermarket for a good reason. RUPES’ engineers designed it to work with a large orbit D.A. Polisher.

The stress imparted on foam pad mounted to a random orbital polisher is extreme. The velocity of the pad is constantly changing, like a car struggling up a small foot hill and then slamming the brakes on the way down. Just like a car, whose brakes would fad and whose engine might overheat, the foam pad becomes hot. This heat radiates upwards to the interface between the backing plate and pad.

RUPES carefully selected the hook and loop material for both the pad and the backing plate to interface with high-levels of lateral grip. A lot of the stress of the pad’s velocity is focused here, and any wiggle or slip with increase heat.

With the advent of the aftermarket pads, many using different hook and loop materials, plus the added power of the Mark II, we found that excessive heat could be generated here and thus made the switch back to a higher-grip material.

Using only RUPES pads, some of my demo tools have years of use, and still have the original gray backing plate. It is a system that is engineered to work together.

“Now that I have the new backing plate, I noticed this weekend that the unit was stopping rotation VERY easily. Upon closer inspection, I noticed that the new backing plate had some pretty good scuffs on it from apparently hitting the shroud. Method and process hasn't changed.”

Mark II’s sold come with a sheet which indicates the importance of lubricating interference shroud.

“Did some more research and found this so called 'washer mod". Off to the hardware store I went for some washers. Grabbed a few and went to work with the bench grinder. 5 minutes later Voila!, a self made washer mod. The unit works great now.”

RUPES engineered the entire large-diameter, single head random orbital polisher. The engineers placed the shroud interface in there as a safety feature necessitated by European regulation and to limit the free-spin rotation.

By placing a washer in-between the counter weight and backing plate, you changed the pivot point of any off-center stress on the backing plate. Hold 5 lbs. close to your body – you can do it for days. Hold it at arm’s length and for 5 minutes and you quickly realize how leverage works.

Any pressure that is now off-center is going to have more leverage effect against the bearing.

“Whats my point here you ask? Does Rupes make nice machines Yes. “

Thanks.

“However, for those that think they are without issue or to those that think their engineering is superior, think again.”

The BigFoot Random Orbital line currently enjoys a warranty repair rate of less than 1%. I would state that creating a new style of polishing, the engineering of the backing plate engagement to the pad, the design of the pad, the foam selection to transfer energy to paint with minimal heat retention, etc etc , all strongly disagree with your opinion about RUPES engineering. That doesn’t mean there room for improvement does not exist – of course it does and we always strive to get better.

“Other pads work just as good on the machine and hey Rupes, how about making updates that actually work and letting the customers know about it.”

Aftermarket pads have definitely mimicked the successful innovative engineering of the RUPES BigFoot pads, and some have even copied the foam formulas. there are a lot of good options out there.

I’m not sure what you mean about making updates “that actually work”. We switched to a blue-backed backing plate to offer more grip, for small example. We write news letters to our distributors and we post information on our facebook page and our company website when changes are made. We now include slips that show the importance of lubricating your shroud. If you have a specific idea that you feel would help up discriminate information in a better way, we would be more than happy to hear it.

Just like the progressive trigger on the Mark III is another update that actually works, it was an update requested by our customers. We take your opinion seriously and our engineers love to work on challenges.

“I am sort of frustrated that it took all of this to get things to work properly so i hope my post helps someone else. It's just little stuff like this that shows in the end, any company, no matter where they are located or what their marketing says can have errors.

I wont be selling my unit anytime soon but Rupes isn't as gold standard as some would tell you. “

We are glad that you are happy with your system, and we do try hard to engineer the best solutions possible. We aren’t perfect, and while we would never claim to be a gold standard, we certainty are aimed at being better everyday.

You could always contact us thru our website at RUPESUSA.com, call the factory in the USA and talk to one of the repair guys, or be connected to either Jason Rose, myself, or anybody on the RUPES USA technical team. We are here to help.

My email is T O D D at RUPES USAdot COM.

[Trevine]

That’s a lot of typing to repeat the same old story line.

Lateral stress blah blah. Not buying that one for a second. Just admit the gray plate sucks and move on.

As for the washer I guess that’s personal choice. The euro crats safety makes sense but that’s the extent of it. I am no engineer but I really doubt a 1/16” inch compares at all to the 5# example. As I said I see no difference other than it spins nicely using the washer but admit that I might just be elated that it finally works REALLY well. Just today, I found an old esoteric video that specifically talks about the washer and if I am not mistaken, mentions talking to Rupes about it and didn’t say anything bad about it. Own that one too.

This isn’t meant to sway folks away from Rupes. Great machines. I just don’t buy the story line on these issues. For the record. I just bought the 75Es despite the issues I was having.

[Todd@RUPES]

I hope those who value facts, physics, and engineering will find something useful on my response.

[Trevine]

Touché! or they can actually try it to see the difference and thank us non scientific minions later.

I hope those who value facts, physics, and engineering will find something useful on my response.

[Mike Phillips]

I hope those who value facts, physics, and engineering will find something useful on my response.

I appreciate your chiming in Todd!

[Calendyr]

Don't feel bad. I have been complaining for years that my 21ES was throwing pads off the backplate and no one on the forums said anything. I have tried several type of pads to try to fix it. This winter i mentionned the issue to a local Rupes reseller and he told me about the new blue plate. I have one now and will try it this spring.

[swanicyouth]

Lol washer mod. Reminds me of the dudes who put those coffee can mufflers on their cars thinking they’re making it go faster. Vroom!