Ideas for removing urethane paint and overspray from new cloth convertible top?

[Indy]

Hey guys,

I just had my wife's 1997 Trans Am WS6 Convertible painted and there is paint overpsray on the cloth convertible top. Despite a supposedly properly masked off convertible top, paint still got under the masking paper and onto the top. The top is only a few months old and is black with the paint being urethane black as well. The paint and overspray is everywhere and in some areas on the top, the paint is more than just overspray and is quite heavy, with other areas being just simply light overspray. Regardless of heavy or light, the paint is quite noticeable and shows as a shiny black patch here and there on a factory satin looking cloth top. The top is not vinyl like the older vehicles had, but the cloth top found on newer vehicles and would be factory for this vehicle. I tried lightly wiping lacquer thinner with a cloth in some areas with no results, and heavier rubbing in a smaller test area and still no results. I am hesitant to try anything really aggressive for fear of damaging the top. Any suggestions? Has anyone had any success in removing urethane paint and overspray from such a top? It is quite noticeable, so any help is greatly appreciated. Can this paint be removed at all or am I looking at possibly having to replace the top?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

[Coatingsarecrack]

If you paid someone to do it I would have them fix or replace. If was a retail environment the should take care of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mike Phillips]

Hey guys,

I just had my wife's 1997 Trans Am WS6 Convertible painted and there is paint overpsray on the cloth convertible top. Despite a supposedly properly masked off convertible top, paint still got under the masking paper and onto the top.

Long time no see Steve!

For those that don't know, we did a show car makeover to the really cool Camaro Pace Car you see in Steve's Avatar.

Can this paint be removed at all or am I looking at possibly having to replace the top?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

The brand Mötsenböcker’s comes to mind.

I've been recommending this brand for years on this forum and surprise surprise! We now carry two Mötsenböcker’s products but not the product for removing paint.

Looks like Stoner's may have bought Mötsenböcker’s?


I only found out we carry this brand because I found a bottle of it in the garage and then looked on the What's New link on the AG store page.

Stoner Car Care Products, stoner invisible glass, glass cleaner, tarminator, stoner car spray products


Check out Lowe's or Home Depot, they have carried paint removers that are supposed to be very safe.


Another option is Xenit. We carry that on the AG store.

My honest opinion is any thing you use will still require scrubbing with "something" and the more scrubbing you do the greater the risk you're going to AFFECT the appearance of the material in a negative way.

Make the shop buy you a new top.


I recently detailed a convertible cloth top on a vintage Porsche and I taped it off and covered it up AIR TIGHT. If I can do it - it seems like others can do it. If they can't, tell them check out the pictures and videos I posted to my FB page.

[Indy]

Hey Mike...Great to hear from you and wish you well.

Thanks for the suggestion. These suggestions are for me to see if the top can even be saved and to either try myself or recommend to the paint shop to try. If the paint on the top is not able to be removed reasonably, I may have to discuss with them other options and possibly top replacement. They have not been easy to work with to this point, claiming nonsense like the top was like that when I brought the car to them or that it's not paint, but creases and wear in the top, and/or finally, I should have expected overspray getting on the top and either took extra precautions or paid them more money to them for added protection of the top.

A complete nightmare. Will update any results then they happen.

[yakky]

Stay on their case, even resort to calling at the exact same time each day. Paint shops are pros at the slow walk aka dodging responsibility.

[Natron]

Yikes, what a bummer. We have no experience on a soft top, be we have been glad to have the Motsenbacher many times in the last few years. Exteriors and a few seats only though.

[Indy]

And the plot thickens!!!

Okay guys, for anyone interested, a lot has happened since I last posted on this issue. I went to the shop and discussed the many issues wrong with my vehicle, including not just the paint all over the convertible top, but overspray all over the engine compartment, waves in the body panels where it had been poorly sanded, fisheye everywhere, flat spots, sanding scratches, and, well you get the picture.

After pointing all of these things out, the owner of the shop became quite hostile and told me I was trying to take advantage of him, that these issues were to be expected, and that if I wanted my vehicle to come out nicer, I should have paid him more money for a more expensive paint job. The thing is, when I brought my vehicle to him to be painted, I never once stated I had to stick to any specific budget. I asked how much it would cost to paint my car right, and agreed to the price he gave me. I brought to his attention my concerns over my recently replaced top, as well as avoiding overspray in the jambs, to which he replied he used foam inserts in the jamb areas (he never did), and that not only would be mask off my top properly, he would use this product he referred to as “slime” that gets smeared on the convertible top and helps protect it from any paint that may get to it (he never did this either).

In fact, a week after agreeing to the original price quoted to me, a week after he began work, he called me in and told me that due to bad body work and build-up of paint from a previous paint job, I had to pay him more money. Upon hearing this, I did point out to him there was NO WAY there was any bad body work or build-up of paint, as my car is an original paint vehicle, in which I am the second owner, and know its entire history and in no way is what he claims is the truth. He was upset over being called out, but demanded extra money anyway. So, not wanting to start anything, and just wanting my car painted, I agreed to the increase in cost of $250 in order to "fix" his perceived issues. I knew at this point, I had chosen poorly, but I was in it now and had to proceed forward and hope for the best. My hopes were soon dashed of course.

So, weeks later, he claims my vehicle is again completed, but instead, I find myself with a car that is still messed up and a top that may be ruined. During my discussion with him of the many things wrong, the owner, refusing to listen to anything I had to say, and simply stated that if I didn't pay him in full, he would simply seize my vehicle and place a lien on it. This owner thought he didn’t have to do anything anymore. He thought he held all the cards, and could scare and bully me into accepting shoddy workmanship and damage to my vehicle, and still have to pay him in full, while he accepted no wrongdoing. After all, he had my car, and he knew something vague about filing mechanic’s liens. He didn’t think he had to compromise at all. We would soon see he was mistaken. \

After trying to reason with him, he stated that not only did he think he deserved the full contract price paid to him immediately, but that he also did thousands of dollars in extra work that he deserved to be compensated for and that if I don't pay him at least the contract price, he will come after me for not just the money on the contract, but the extra work as well. Again not wanting to cause problems, I agreed to pay him in full, just to get my car away from him and be done with him. I would decide later to either fix his mistakes and eat the cost or if it was real bad, take him to court later…I just wanted to get my car and myself away from him. Upon offering to pay him in full, I asked for a release of lien. Since it was him who brought up placing a lien on my vehicle, it was only fair to demand one. (For everyone out there...demand a Final Release of Lien anytime you pay a mechanic in full, even if there are no issues...it protects you and you are within your rights to demand one). Owner stated he would NOT provide any release, and when I asked why, he simply stated that he didn’t have to, so he won’t. This was unacceptable. My fear was he would take my money, then still refuse to give me my car anyway, and demand more money he thought he deserved and still placed a lien on my vehicle anyway.

After days of back and forth, either thru email or phone calls, he kept telling me to pay him in cash, and come pick up my car, but still he refused to provide a release of lien upon payment. At this point, one has to wonder why he would refuse. It’s not like it’s a big deal in providing me with one, it costs him nothing. The only time a person would refuse to sign a release of lien is if they had some malicious reason, such as accept payment, and demand further payment and still retain lien rights. Other than that, who wouldn’t sign a simply release in order to get paid? It didn’t make sense. The only way it made any sense to me was if he had other intentions…which proved to be the real reason later on.

Shop owner then threatened to start charging me storage fees of $50 a day, starting back from when he first claimed the vehicle was completed. Realizing that no ration or reason was going to convince him to see thing properly, I sent him a final email stating I would give in to his every demand, pay cash in full and remove my vehicle, but he HAD to issue a release of lien in exchange. I even offered to bring a release of lien with me just in case he didn’t know where to find one or how to draft one up himself, and all he had to do was sign it and we would be done with each other for good...he still refused.

Three days later I get a "NOTICE OF CLAIM OF LIEN & PROPOSED SALE OF MOTOR VEHICLE TO SATISFY LIEN" in the mail, sent certified return receipt. It looked all official and had a demand price of over four (4) times the original contract price. Well, for most people, this would be terrifying and scare them into paying immediately...I'm not most people. I'm a retired cop who has gone to law school. I also know from experience, that you cannot just place a lien on someone's property without first going through a lengthy process. One must first give legally required notices and provide certain documents, not to mention you have to wait a specific amount of time before placing a lien. The law is on the side of the consumer and we are protected by these laws. A mechanic can not just send a scary looking lien and demand you pay them whatever they claim you owe.

First, I went online and verified if a lien had been placed on my vehicle...it had not. I then went to the courthouse and did two things. First, I posted a bond on my vehicle. This is super easy, you don't have to file any paperwork, you don't have to initiate a lawsuit, and it is completely free (other than the amount of the bond). I gave the court a copy contract showing the actual price, not the over-exaggerated price on the fake lien. Moments later, I held in my hand a certified bond release issued from the clerk of the court. The next thing I did was go over and file a small claims lawsuit. I sued not just for the breach of contract, but for the damages as well. My contention is not only should I not pay for the bad work, I should be compensated for the cost of fixing all of his mistakes, including my ruined convertible top. If the mistakes cost more than the contract price, he pays me...if the mistakes cost less than the contract, I deduct the amount and pay him anything leftover, which I was sure there wouldn’t be.

One thing about this bond release you guys should appreciate is a wonderful sentence contained within it. "According to law, you must release this customer's motor vehicle to him or be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082..." Nice huh? It goes on to state that his money has been placed with the courts, and if he wants it, he has sixty (60) days in order to file a lawsuit and then convince a judge he deserves the money. If he fails to file a lawsuit or if he does but fails to convince the judge he is right...the bond money gets refunded to the vehicle owner. Also, if he sues, and you the vehicle owner win, he has to pay your expert witness fees, court costs and attorney fees. But be warned, if he wins, you have to pay his. So be sure you are absolutely right before doing this. I was sure I was right.

So, I go to his shop, bringing my wife as backup (she carried the most valuable weapon one could bring...a video camera). I walked in and ask to see the owner. I watched as walked across the shop, toward the front counter. He has this swagger in his step and a cocksure grin on his face. He thinks he won. He thinks his fake lien scared the hell out of me, and I am there to grovel for his forgiveness, pay him whatever he wants, and thank him for the opportunity of doing so. I wasn’t.

Everything changed in an instant. That look on his face drained. He grimaced as that stupid smile changed in a second when I placed that court order in front of him, stating the following, "I have a court order, I want my vehicle, you have to release it to me immediately". His look went from bigshot jerk to ugly and confused. After a few moments trying to gain his composure, he says he needs to verify it before he’ll do anything. I told him to go ahead. He goes to his back office, where I hear him yell repeatedly for the girl who works his front counter to get in there. He kept yelling her name over and over, as she ran back there, as she entered his tiny office, I heard him yell to shut the door behind her, repeatedly, until moments later, he slammed it shut himself. I heard more shouting and yelling for several moments. After several minutes, he comes out, and says he can’t verify the court order and adds that he thinks it’s a fake anyway and he is not going to release anything. I tell him that this is a genuine court order, and he, by law, cannot refuse to abide by it. If he does, he will be arrested immediately and that I would again, like my car thank you very much. I then add that all he has to do is go on the courthouse website and type in the case number and see that what he has in his hand is legitimate. He refuses, and tells me to leave his shop or he’ll call the cops.

So, I walk out, call the police myself, and moments later, they show up. In between this time, Owner refusing to admit defeat, and being pissed he no longer is in control, and that I am not intimidated by him. There were some tense moments where it could have gotten physical, but I didn’t back down. He got in my face, and I simply backed up, and told him to be careful. I knew he was not in control and that is why I walked out and waited for the police. His red seething face was priceless I will admit.

Moments later, the police show up, and at first, the cops, not understanding exactly how a vehicle bond works, questioned the legitimacy of the court order as well. Now, for those that may not know, the days of actual hand signatures and raised embossed seals are gone. The court seal is printed at the signature line and the signature is an electronic printed signature. If someone at the court house had to personally hand emboss and hand sign ever document, they would spend all day doing just that and nothing more. So, the courts have since started using inked seals and electronic signatures.

At first, the one cop in charge states that I need to go back to the court and get a new court order with a raised seal and an ink signature by a judge in order for my bond to be legitimate. At first, I tried to explain to this cop he was wrong. Now, if anyone has ever met a cop, they know that they do NOT like to be told they are wrong…even if they are. Admitting they could be wrong they think makes them appear weak…and damn it, they have a badge and the person telling them they are wrong doesn’t…so you need to shut up and listen cause I have a badge. You get the idea. I have seen this with so many cops, it’s not funny. Remember, I was a cop once. But, unlike many instances where the cop may be right…this was not one of them. I was right and the cop was wrong, and he didn't seem to like being told that. I told him that no judge signature was required as this a court order signed by the clerk of the court, and that no judicial proceedings were required (hence judicial proceeding = judge involvement, and is NOT REQUIRED per the statute). I show him the statute where it states this exactly, and he is still skeptical. He then states that the seal needs to be embossed. I asked him if he remembers how the older notary republic seals used to be embossed raised seals, and today they are just inked flat seals, and he agreed. I stated that this is the same for court orders. My wife, then being smarter than me, comes forward with her cell phone, and shows the cop the courthouse website, with an electronic case number and a digitized photo of the same court order I had in my hand, all matching exactly. This seemed to be persuasive for him that this court order was indeed legitimate and recognized by the court. Still not completely convinced, he went into the mechanics shop, and told the owner to bring up on his desktop computer, the courthouse website and enter the case number assigned to the court order. They did, and right there was exactly as I had stated. The cop was finally convinced. I have to say though, I was in fear this cop's ignorance was going to cost me dearly, as there is no telling what the owner of the shop would have done to my vehicle in the time period from my leaving until coming back the next day after having to waste time straightening this misunderstanding out. I mean, after all, the owner, thinking he is either going to keep my car or sell it for money, has lots of incentive to keep the car in its best condition. But upon learning it is going to be taken from him, he could have done anything to it, dump crap in the gas tank, cut wires, hell, he could take a heaping crap in the back seat...ANYTHING...and simply state it was like that when I brought it in. I did not want to take this chance. I think that it may be best in the future to go the police dept in advance, and after presenting the court order and proving its authenticity, have them escort me to the mechanic’s shop and standby as the court order is presented.

Anyway, after the cops were convinced, they were the nicest guys ever and very helpful. We chatted and laughed and I found out that with one of them, we went to the same police academy, with him being only a few classes behind mine. Of course, the owner of the shop was beside himself with anger. At one point, he refused the cops order to release the vehicle and challenged them. He told them they had no right to order him to give me my vehicle, and he wasn't going to listen to them (which cops just love to hear). One officer stated very succinctly, either give the man his vehicle, or you go away in handcuffs right now, and he still takes his car...your choice. This was the moment all of my trouble and hassles were worth it. The stomach churning nausea I suffered when I first saw the lien, thinking it at first was real. The back and forth with this irrational imbecile, arguing with him over matters I knew I was right and he was wrong. The times when slammed the phone in my ear after refusing to listen to anything I had to say, the shouting over me, the bullying, and the almost two months of being without my vehicle, wondering if I would ever get it back...all of it now worth it. This BULLY was getting what he deserved. The legal system works...it just takes patience.

I got my car back. I pulled it into my driveway last night, and it's safe at home again. Now, I have to see what damage has been done and what it is going to take to fix everything. Then, there is the upcoming lawsuit. I filed mine and we will see if he files his. I am confident I will prevail...but never underestimate the future. Nothing is for sure.

Will keep you all posted.

[DBAILEY]

My goodness. You should out this body shop on this forum so that no one here would ever use them.

[SWETM]

Wow what a mess you got on your hands! Good of you to stand up to that I don't want write what I think of him. And a big good luck going forward to get your rights right. Hope it cost him much too to be unproffessional as he is. Man some think they are god.

Looking forward to hear where this goes.

/ Tony

[DBAILEY]

Well done keeping calm. I think I would have lost my temper and done something stupid. Back in the early 90's I had an apartment complex not refund me my security deposit because they claimed that there was a huge (like 3'x3') section of carpet missing in the middle of the living room. Which was absolutely ridiculous I think I would have noticed. They showed me a photo of a carpet with a big section ripped out in the middle. I couldn't tell if it was my old apartment or not and they would not allow me to see the carpet myself. The property manager/custodian was a complete ass. About a 2-3 weeks later I went back and threw 4 opened boxes of black RID dye into the complex pool. Someone I knew that still lived there said they had to close the pool down to clean it. I figured I got even.