IPA confusion ??

[KBsToy]

Came across this on you tube ???

YouTube

[kevincwelch]

There is some truth to what he is saying in his video. However, there are also a lot of conditional statements that he makes, and thus, he is speaking very broadly about isopropyl alcohol.

Regarding the nature of isopropyl alcohol as an organic solvent, I largely disagree with him. Isopropyl alcohol is a non-polar compound that is very effective at dissolving organic oils and fats. The dwell time of isopropyl alcohol on paint is dependent upon the temperature and the relative humidity, as well as concentration. However, that doesn't affect its chemical ability to dissolve oils. So, isopropyl alcohol in its varying strengths, will be an effective solvent for dissolving compound and polish oils. One does have to consider the lack of lubrication in isopropyl alcohol sprays. Prep solutions like CarPro Eraser have lubrication built into the solution, and they are less likely to cause marring of the paint surface as it is prepped.

Much of its ability is dependent upon its concentration. If you have a very weak solution of isopropyl alcohol, the majority of the solution is water, which is a polar substance. Since isopropyl alcohol easily dissolves into water, the combination maybe less effective at breaking down compound and polish oils than a higher percentage of isopropyl alcohol.

As far as isopropyl alcohol goes, clear coats are semipermeable membranes. The isopropyl alcohol can penetrate and cause swelling of these membranes. It can affect the binding. Again, this is dependent upon the concentration as well as the ambient and paint surface temperatures. The higher the temperature, the more the penetration and expansion. But, we all know that detailing and working on a hot paint surface is not advised anyway.

As far as product line synergy goes, I've never been a big believer in this. I think this is more a marketing ploy rather than one based in any chemistry. (As someone who is a medical advisor of a pharmaceutical company, I can tell you that chemists can easily manipulate the base chemical with various functional groups, making them unique, but the overall action of a compound is relatively unchanged. Maybe that's what they mean by "synergy.") This is opposed to compounds and polishes that are designed to be direct predecessors to coating application, like Gyeon primer or CarPro essence. (But many of us have seen that we can put unrelated coatings on either of these polishes and get great, durable results.) Gtechniq panel wipe will obliterate just about any competitors, as well as their own, compound and polish oils left on the paint surface. Obviously, some prep solutions are better than others, and each manufacturer has its own. I doubt anyone on this formum has done a real chemical analysis, including me. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of these products are very similar, if not identical.

In terms of whether isopropyl alcohol is the best prep solution, I doubt it is. While by its nature it should dissolve oils, I think there are better options out there. Isopropyl alcohol certainly is the cheapest of them.

[TTQ B4U]

I agree with Kevin on most all of his points. Where I disagree with Scott is that we're not leaving pure alcohol on the clear coat for hours or until it evaporates. I've never seen evidence that it is going to swell or damage the clear. The "flashing" doesn't happen as quickly as he notes in the video unless one is improperly mixing the ratio of alcohol and distilled water.

In short, the CarPro and Gyeon products are IMO the same outside color and scent. I use them both. I do also mix up an appropriate mix of my own IPA and tend to mix it with these products to stretch how far they go. They are pricey and IMO overpriced but I do enjoy their lubricating abilities and have had ZERO issues wiping down even soft paints. Thus why I can disagree with Scott as my own proof is my experience and use.

I also disagree with his point on it not leaving a true clean surface. Sure it does. The alcohol in them isn't "Brand Specific" in what it dissolves. There's nothing different about the polishing oils or solvents in Jescar vs CarPro vs Meg's polishes that isn't removed with these solutions. Try it and see, you can actually see and feel it removing the oils and creating a clean dry surface. Also, the alcohol and distilled water sprayed evaporates so there's no residual left on the surface. Pure black paint comes out pure black, there are no streaks or residues left. He's wrong there.

Also, in terms of coatings, I've done tons of them with this process including my own daily drivers with again, ZERO issues. I follow him on YouTube and enjoy his videos and recommendations but not everything he says is perfectly correct.

[1500canoe]

There's a good thread that you can search for where Mike Phillips advocates for a weaker (10-20%) IPA mix than the 50/50 or higher that some people use. I personally feel better about using a mixture in this range.

[Paul A.]

I also go back to Mike P's explanation of IPA and its use. His specific discussion of how "hot" its mixed and the benefits or lack of, to me, was very valuable information. At the time I adjusted my ratios based on Mike's discussion on that topic.

I don't use IPA to clean very often. I do like Car Pro Eraser and have been very satisfied with its ability to prep for a coating/sealant/wax. Scott has poo poo'ed any cleaners with dyes as he feels they are uneccessary. Eraser clearly has a blue tint indicating a dye. I have used it on white paints and have never had any issues.

[Calendyr]

I have been using IPA since I started, years ago. I try to make 23% or 25% concentration solutions and I also add ONR to the mix as a lubricant. Been working ok. I think that solvants make better prep products. Something like Duplicolor Grease and wax remover is mostly acetone and it seriously cleans the panel. Down side is you can't use it on single stage paint nor plastics.

I juat purchased a bottle of Gttechniq panel wipe. Wanted to use it today but that product too is not friendly with single stage paint. And I had just sanded away tons of scratches and applied touch up paint to tons of rock chips... so... no go.

This year I replaced Isopropyl alcohol with windshield washer fluid, and still added ONR to it. I am almost done with the gallon I made.... verdict... not as good as IPA and will not repeat when this gallon is done. It's much cheaper costing about 2$ per gallon, but it's much less effective at removing oils, so more work is needed. I would rather pay more and save time.

On the other hand 27$ for a bottle of 16 ouces of Panel wipe is just ridiculous. I will use it only of coating prep, but still, I think that is just ridiculous.

[kevincwelch]

Who uses mineral spirits? I've used it before, and it does work. Haven't used it as a coating prep, but it seems to work.

[TTQ B4U]

Who uses mineral spirits? I've used it before, and it does work. Haven't used it as a coating prep, but it seems to work.

I use it as a solvent to remove tar and junk. Lacquer thinner works too. never used them as a pre-coating prep though.

[AZpolisher15]

I would think there's a point of diminishing return with ipa concentration. When you think of the small amount of residual polishing oils, a 20% (or 25% or 30%, etc.) solution might get all the residue. What that concentration is I don't know. But if we get favorable results with, say, 25%, there's no reason to go higher.

[Mike Phillips]

Just to chime in...

I've never been a fan of using IAP to chemically strip paint. It doesn't even "feel good" wiping it over the surface.

I am a fan of some of the dedicated products for this process plus Mineral Spirits.


And also just to note, the ONLY reason I ever wrote the article on how to safely dilute IPA was because at that time we had a few "experts" on this forum telling everyone to use IPA with no other details, information or recommendations as to the dilution.

I tested IPA and found it wrinkled clear coat paint at full strength. So I asked for someone else to write the article and when no one stepped up to the plate AFTER ONE YEAR went by I did step up to the plate, did the research and then wrote the article.

That was to keep everyone from ruining their paint due to the experts lack of good judgement.

To this day I still don't use IPA to chemically strip paint.


Everyone else can do as they will.