Help me choosing one dedicated coating for customers.

[Mike Phillips]

Hello,


What is required to maintain a car with the coating?

That is a great question and from what I've seen, (and I see and read a lot of car detailing talk all over the Interwebs), no one really has stepped up to the plate to give a definitive answer with in-depth information besides the general recommendation to wash a coated vehicle frequently but then there's no hard recommendation on what the word frequently means?

I'm trying to do what's best for my truck.

I live near Chicago and have to leave my truck outside.

And this point you make about how the vehicle is stored when not in use, that is parked outside, and if we assume, (which I hate to do), if we assume that when the truck is in use, for example when you drive it to work that it is also parked outside, then the two articles I linked to come into play. I'm not going to copy and paste the entire articles into my reply here because all a person has to do is >click< the links, look at the pictures and read the text and the "issues" I point out as they relate to the care and maintenance of a coated car are already made.

And... I have not see the issues addressed by anyone in the industry.

I planned on using the Wolfgang coating knowing I would have to do maintenance once a year.

The point I think I've made previously is that if the car is a DAILY DRIVER and the paint is coated, assuming a quality coating is used and properly applied, then...

A: The coating should bond and adhere to the paint for at least a year and longer as long as the paint is "touched" or in more plain terms, washed carefully, that is the paint is washed with a clean wash mitt and NOT scrubbed in the process of moving the mitt over the surface of any panel.

B: Even though the coating endures over time, the surface of the coating itself becomes stained. Thus the protection is there but the beauty of the paint and overall appearance of the finish and thus the car is diminished even if the human eye cannot detect the diminishing beauty results due to road grime, road film, dirt stain, traffic film, etc.


Thus, what to do, (re-cleaning or re-polishing the paint), and how often to do it comes down to personal preference.


If a person only cares about long lasting protection then after a coating is properly applied and assuming the car is washed carefully and gently like I share in the below article, the paint should be protected for 1, 2 even up to 3 years.


If a person cares about both protection and having the best looking finish possible, then again, for a daily driver, from what I've seen first hand polishing coated paint, a daily driver car should be have the paint re-cleaned or re-polished at least once a year and then have the coating re-applied.


Just my observations and thoughts on the topics of,

1. Paint coatings
2. How long paint coatings last and protect the paint
3. How long the initial beauty created at the time of application lasts un-diminished from the effects of normal wear-n-tear and exposure to the world we drive in and park our cars in.

How to wash a coated car - The Gentle Approach for Washing a Car by Mike Phillips

Do I have to compound, clay and polish before putting on the sealant or do I just polish first?

I would think the answer would be "no".

After you properly prep the paint for the coating, which would or should be the things you listed only in this order,

Wash
Clay
Compound
Polish
Chemically strip paint
Apply coating


Then the maintenance after one year would be,

Wash
Clay
Polish
Re-apply coating


These answers are guesstimates because we're in unchartered water. Paint coatings are still new and again, from what I have read or rather the lack of information I've read from other detailers and/or including detailing gurus, there is no substantial information on the recommended maintenance of a coated DAILY DRIVER after one year.

My experience is no matter what the coating, the surface becomes stained and thus some form of cleaning and/or abrading is needed to remove the dirt staining. Again, see this article,


Road Film - If you drive your car in the rain your car has road film

Is this the same if I used a quality sealant?

I'd say yes.

I have always thought the less time you have to clay the car the better.

Claying doesn't harm paint since it primarily focus on the removal of contaminants ON the surface. Contrast to a compound or polish, or even a cleaner/wax where the abrasives remove some measure of paint which makes the paint thinner. So claying is very benign or non-aggressive.

My general rule-of-thumb however is if there is ANY form of mechanical decontamination to be performed to a vehicles’ finish then I'm already planning on doing at least one form of machine polishing to remove any marring that may have occurred during the mechanical decontamination process. That's just me though, each person can decide for themselves what is best for them and their car's paint.



Back to your original question...

Hello,


What is required to maintain a car with the coating?

A: If you're only concerned with protecting the paint by maintaining the coating, then washing the vehicle on a regular basis using a quality car wash shampoo, a clean, quality car wash mitt and in the process, washing the coating carefully as to not abrade it in any way, thus the gentle approach to washing a car.

B: If you're wanting to both protect the paint AND maintain a high level of gloss, clarity and shine to the paint finish, and the car is a DAILY DRIVER then my observation would be at a minimum, on a yearly basis,

1. Washing, including, chemical decontamination and mechanical decontamination
2. Machine cleaning with some type of paint cleaner or coating cleaner/prep and/or machine polishing
3. Re-coating

Thanks

I don't know if the above helped, I hope so. I do know that this type of in-depth discussion could not take place using the Facebook interface.

[waterman]

Mike,

Thank you very, very much for answering my question. I, and I'm sure everyone else appreciates the effort and time you give answering our questions. I am concerned with both protection and looks of my truck and you have helped!!

Thank you,

Lou

[tdekany]

The only one I know of to make that claim is Gtechiq's pro product with a 7 year warranty. You can't just purchase that product off the shelf.

You DO NOT re polish a pro coated car like that yearly - you get a 7 year warranty and you teach your client to wash it properly, which is weekly or 2 x a month. That is all you do.

As far as coatings that are not pro grade, I do not know much about, except for Gloss Coat, but I am curious what is this staining that Mike is talking about.

Just for reference, The oldest Opti Coat (pro) wearing vehicle that is still with the original owner is a Corvette that is in Canada and is being taken care of by Yvan Lacroix, who is the Canadian rep for Optimum. The car is not exactly pampered and comes in for a yearly decontamination detail. Opti Coat Pro was applied over 8 years ago. After the decon clean the paint is back to like new condition.

Of course you can't expect similar results from consumer grade coatings, but if the car is washed at least 2 times a month, the customer should be able to just enjoy the finish for the life of the coating, which is usually between 12 - 36 months.

speaking re-coating yearly...

Some coating claims that it won't be remove with anything less than 1500 grit sand paper,
So...... in that case.... if I polish with lets say menzerna sf4000 and add new layer of coating on top of it (of course after IPA/ coating prep etc)
would it have any bonding issue to old layer of coat?

[Mike Phillips]

you teach your client to wash it properly, which is weekly or 2 x a month.

How to you teach your clients to wash their coated vehicles properly?

[Mike Phillips]

Mike,

Thank you very, very much for answering my question.

I, and I'm sure everyone else appreciates the effort and time you give answering our questions. I am concerned with both protection and looks of my truck and you have helped!!

Thank you,

Lou

You're welcome Lou...

[tdekany]

I teach them how I do it, which is usually takes up an hour before I work on their car and go over everything before I hand over the key - they also get 3 links to videos on YouTube - 2 for ONR washes and 1 for traditional washes. In the same e mail, they find about 10 other links to purchase the products I use to wash/dry my vehicles. Makes sense?

How to you teach your clients to wash their coated vehicles properly?

[Mike Phillips]

I teach them how I do it, which is usually takes up an hour before I work on their car and go over everything before I hand over the key - they also get 3 links to videos on YouTube - 2 for ONR washes and 1 for traditional washes.

In the same e mail, they find about 10 other links to purchase the products I use to wash/dry my vehicles.

Makes sense?

Makes perfect sense. And it's good to know you're being pro-active to teach your customers how to properly wash their coated cars.


Here's my experience, in the years I've been alive on this earth I find most people don't know how to properly wash a car. I share this in at least two of my books, the first edition, which is called "The Art of Detailing" and the second edition, "The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine"


On page 14 you'll find this,




The point of this passage are,

1: Most people don't pay attention to how they wash a car.
2: Most people don't know how to properly and safely wash a car.
3: Most people instill swirls and scratches into the surface when washing their car because of the first two points.


I'd also say most people don't wash their cars as often as they should and even as often as they like and for this reason, my experience is that the exterior of a car including not just the paint but also the glass, plastic, trim etc, gets a dirt build up or a type of dirt film over all of these surfaces over time. This is especially true for daily drivers in areas where it rains a lot for the reason I spell out in the article I've included twice now in this thread and now three times.

Road Film - If you drive your car in the rain your car has road film


Driving in the rain - For most of us it's unavoidable






Road Film
Road film is the oily film splattered all over your car when you drive in the rain.

Where does Road Film come from?

Oils and other fluids that drip out of cars, truck and suvs accumulate on roads and highways over time.

When it rains, these accumulated oils and other fluids mix with the rain and are then splattered all over your car in effect staining you're entire car from top to bottom. The highest concentration of road film accumulates on your wheels, tires and lower body panels.


Just look in the parking space of any parking lot...







Motor Oil, Transmission Fluid, Gear Oil and other fluids

These outlined areas show where fluids have dripped off engines and transmission, even radiators and accumulated to the point that the pavement has been permanently stained.







It's also on roads and highways...





The oil stain line that runs down the middle of the road...




The dark line down the middle of the road
It's the darker, line down the middle of roads and freeways where most of the oily fluids accumulate as car, truck and suvs drive down the road.

Now that you've read this article and looked at the above pictures, you'll remember this every time you look down the road you're driving on.


Remember, oil and water don't mix
When it rains, the cars in front of you spray the rain water mixed in with these accumulated oils onto not only your car's paint but the wheels, tires, glass, plastic, cloth tops and vinyl tops.

If it's on the outside of the car then it's getting coated with oily road film.


Road Film builds up over time..
Oily road film builds up over time and because this film is oily or sticky it attracts dirt. This can be the dirt in the air or also in rain water that's splattered onto your car from the cars driving in front of you.


Can't always be seen...
Because the dirt staining effect caused by road film build up slowly over time it's not always easy to see, especially on black and dark colored cars, but don't be fooled, if you drive in the rain your car is getting coated in road film.


The solution to the problem?
Washing your car will remove any topical road film. The problem is the dirty, oil film will tend to migrate into any voids, pits, pores or interstices in your car's paint at least to the point that normal car washing won't remove it.


It's pretty easy to remove road film, all you have to do is periodically use one of the below approaches,

Use a quality cleaner/wax or AIO. The cleaning agents and/or abrasives in the cleaner/wax will remove any road film that washing could not remove.

Use a dedicated polish by hand or machine. Any high quality polish will effectively remove any built-up road film. Just be sure to apply a wax, sealant or coating afterwards to seal the paint.


Road Film... if you drive your car in the rain it's on your car...

My theory is that whether a car is waxed, sealed with a synthetic paint sealant or a paint coating, that if it is NOT washed regularly then at a minimum, the POTENTIAL exists for the surface of the coating to get the same build-up of road film that cars with wax or sealant get.

OF COURSE because of the self-cleaning feature provided by all quality coatings, coated cars stay cleaner longer as well as wash and dry faster. This is what I and others like about paint coatings.


I think paint coatings are still too new to have all the data needed to know 100% for sure what is taking place at the surface level over time. I do believe is a coated car is washed often, wash carefully and washed properly than the owner of the car can avoid the build up of road grime.

I don't know and I don't think anyone knows what are the results for coated cars that are NOT washed often, wash carefully and washed properly.


I also think this is a great discussion and one that is not taking place anywhere else on the blogosphere except here on AGO. At least not that I'm aware of.

[WillSports3]

For a coated car, I'd suggest instead of using an abrasive polish or something of that manner to use a chemical paint cleaner like PBL Paint Cleanser. Still need a polisher and a finishing or wax pad but at least it'll keep the coating squeaky clean instead of polishing it off and re-installing it every year. For a coating that'll last you two to three years, a good non-abrasive paint cleanser will work wonders.

[tdekany]

Knowledge is king - plus my customers are investing a lot of money in their cars, so you want to make sure that they understand what keeps the car swirl free and what creates imperfections. Rinse less washes like ONR are a great way to get the customer used to "maintaining the coated finish" - once they try it most of them fall in love with the rinseless system. Much faster, no danger of water spotting and most importantly it is good for the environment.

I think we have seen examples of coated cars that are not washed properly. That happens but at least the coating is still "active" but with swirl mark/RIDS. One time, I just finished brain washing the customer with all my "rules", most important of them is the one about not touching the paint with our bare hands unless you are washing the car. The customer pulls out his check book from his briefcase and puts the check book on the trunk and starts filling out the check. It was one time I didn't say anything

Makes perfect sense. And it's good to know you're being pro-active to teach your customers how to properly wash their coated cars.


Here's my experience, in the years I've been alive on this earth I find most people don't know how to properly wash a car. I share this in at least two of my books, the first edition, which is called "The Art of Detailing" and the second edition, "The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine"


On page 14 you'll find this,




The point of this passage are,

1: Most people don't pay attention to how they wash a car.
2: Most people don't know how to properly and safely wash a car.
3: Most people instill swirls and scratches into the surface when washing their car because of the first two points.


I'd also say most people don't wash their cars as often as they should and even as often as they like and for this reason, my experience is that the exterior of a car including not just the paint but also the glass, plastic, trim etc, gets a dirt build up or a type of dirt film over all of these surfaces over time. This is especially true for daily drivers in areas where it rains a lot for the reason I spell out in the article I've included twice now in this thread and now three times.

Road Film - If you drive your car in the rain your car has road film


Driving in the rain - For most of us it's unavoidable






Road Film
Road film is the oily film splattered all over your car when you drive in the rain.

Where does Road Film come from?

Oils and other fluids that drip out of cars, truck and suvs accumulate on roads and highways over time.

When it rains, these accumulated oils and other fluids mix with the rain and are then splattered all over your car in effect staining you're entire car from top to bottom. The highest concentration of road film accumulates on your wheels, tires and lower body panels.


Just look in the parking space of any parking lot...







Motor Oil, Transmission Fluid, Gear Oil and other fluids

These outlined areas show where fluids have dripped off engines and transmission, even radiators and accumulated to the point that the pavement has been permanently stained.







It's also on roads and highways...





The oil stain line that runs down the middle of the road...




The dark line down the middle of the road
It's the darker, line down the middle of roads and freeways where most of the oily fluids accumulate as car, truck and suvs drive down the road.

Now that you've read this article and looked at the above pictures, you'll remember this every time you look down the road you're driving on.


Remember, oil and water don't mix
When it rains, the cars in front of you spray the rain water mixed in with these accumulated oils onto not only your car's paint but the wheels, tires, glass, plastic, cloth tops and vinyl tops.

If it's on the outside of the car then it's getting coated with oily road film.


Road Film builds up over time..
Oily road film builds up over time and because this film is oily or sticky it attracts dirt. This can be the dirt in the air or also in rain water that's splattered onto your car from the cars driving in front of you.


Can't always be seen...
Because the dirt staining effect caused by road film build up slowly over time it's not always easy to see, especially on black and dark colored cars, but don't be fooled, if you drive in the rain your car is getting coated in road film.


The solution to the problem?
Washing your car will remove any topical road film. The problem is the dirty, oil film will tend to migrate into any voids, pits, pores or interstices in your car's paint at least to the point that normal car washing won't remove it.


It's pretty easy to remove road film, all you have to do is periodically use one of the below approaches,

Use a quality cleaner/wax or AIO. The cleaning agents and/or abrasives in the cleaner/wax will remove any road film that washing could not remove.

Use a dedicated polish by hand or machine. Any high quality polish will effectively remove any built-up road film. Just be sure to apply a wax, sealant or coating afterwards to seal the paint.


Road Film... if you drive your car in the rain it's on your car...

My theory is that whether a car is waxed, sealed with a synthetic paint sealant or a paint coating, that if it is NOT washed regularly then at a minimum, the POTENTIAL exists for the surface of the coating to get the same build-up of road film that cars with wax or sealant get.

OF COURSE because of the self-cleaning feature provided by all quality coatings, coated cars stay cleaner longer as well as wash and dry faster. This is what I and others like about paint coatings.


I think paint coatings are still too new to have all the data needed to know 100% for sure what is taking place at the surface level over time. I do believe is a coated car is washed often, wash carefully and washed properly than the owner of the car can avoid the build up of road grime.

I don't know and I don't think anyone knows what are the results for coated cars that are NOT washed often, wash carefully and washed properly.


I also think this is a great discussion and one that is not taking place anywhere else on the blogosphere except here on AGO. At least not that I'm aware of.