SF3500 and SF3800--What Happened?

**Setec Astronomy** · 07-12-2016, 04:58 PM

I asked this in another thread, but I don't think it got answered.

Back when SF3500 and SF3800 were SF4000 and SF4500 (is that what they were? or back when they were PO85RD and PO106FF), I thought they had the same gloss and different cut?

I'm looking at a really old Menzerna sheet from 2006, where PO106FF is 2.5 cut, 5.0 gloss, and PO85RD was 1.5 cut, 5.0 gloss. I thought it was similar when they went to SF4000/SF4500, except I think that's when they went to the 1-10 scale. Anyway, here's the latest chart from the AG store:

So now not only is the cut different, but the gloss is different also, and apparently the 1-10 chart goes to 10+ or even 11 for an LSP, which is ok because now it matches my amp.

Anyway, does this represent an actual change to the product, or simply a refinement of the rating system, and why does nothing ever stay the same in Menzerna land and why don't they tell us when to start calling them Hueys instead of choppers?

(Couple of movie references in there)

**Kamakaz1961** · 07-12-2016, 06:11 PM

I am not a smart guy and now seeing this chart makes me even more dumber!!....LOL If it wasn't for how well the product was in performance...I would have switched brands long ago. Let's not forget it is called Jescar too. Very confusing no matter how you look at it.....I am just a dumb ol man!

**mcate** · 07-12-2016, 06:29 PM

Here's the 2013 chart. 4000 & 4500 we both 10's in gloss.

**vobro** · 07-12-2016, 06:31 PM

The confusion with Menzerna is why I use other lines now. Optimum and HD have changed/reformulated their polishes but it's a lot easier when the new stuff says Cut/Compound or Polish, no numbers,no charts and no headaches.

**Setec Astronomy** · 07-12-2016, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by mcate

Here's the 2013 chart. 4000 & 4500 we both 10's in gloss.

Thank you! I knew I wasn't imagining that...so how did 4000 go down to 9 and 4500 go up to 10+ when they changed to 3500/3800? Was it a product change, or a chart refinement?

**vobro** · 07-12-2016, 06:33 PM

SF3500 and SF3800--What Happened?-image-jpg

**Mike@DedicatedPerfection** · 07-13-2016, 02:04 AM

In all my time using Menzerna polishes I never agreed with any of the charts stating that 3500 & 3800 cut and finished the same.

3500 has always been in the class of normal finishing polishes and the charts that state 4 for cut and 10 for finish were accurate. 3800 has always cut less and finished better than 3500 and should have been labeled 2 for cut and 10+ for finishing. Another thing I don't agree with is per the above chart they claim to handle 3K. I don't agree with this either and 3800 should be labeled for 5K grit removal.

**Setec Astronomy** · 07-13-2016, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by Mike@DedicatedPerfection

In all my time using Menzerna polishes I never agreed with any of the charts stating that 3500 & 3800 cut and finished the same.

Well, they didn't, in the chart mcate posted above, and the 2006 chart I quoted, the cut was always different, it was the gloss that was the same.

Originally Posted by Mike@DedicatedPerfection

3500 has always been in the class of normal finishing polishes and the charts that state 4 for cut and 10 for finish were accurate. 3800 has always cut less and finished better than 3500 and should have been labeled 2 for cut and 10+ for finishing.

Well, ok then. Perhaps when the scale was 1-5 they kind of got rounded off to the same gloss, and that just got carried over to the 1-10 chart, and now they've finally adjusted it to what you have found.

The reason I'm asking about this besides just trying to keep up, is I have a bottle of Blackfire Finishing Polish from a long time ago when it first came out and was supposed to be very close to PO106FA, and a bottle of SF4500 from a couple of years ago, and I just want to know what numbers to "assign" to them, the old numbers or the new numbers...but what you're saying is they are the same and just the charts have changed so the freshest numbers are accurate for my old product.

**parttimer** · 07-13-2016, 06:44 AM

I don't agree SHC is a 10 cut and 6 gloss, more like -900 for gloss! Man that stuff is potent! I have never really used much 4000/4500 but when I did it was just 4000 after 2500.

**Pats300zx** · 07-13-2016, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by vobro

The confusion with Menzerna is why I use other lines now. Optimum and HD have changed/reformulated their polishes but it's a lot easier when the new stuff says Cut/Compound or Polish, no numbers,no charts and no headaches.

Exactly why I stopped using them. There are so many other products that are just as easy to use and preform just as well.