Need opinions on forum 'advertisement'

[Don M]

I don't know if this is the right place to put this, but I wanted opinions. I posted this on a Camaro Enthusiasts forum and so far (3 days) I have only gotten 28 views and no replies. I was wondering if there was/is something else I could do to drum up a little bit of business?



Since it's almost that time of year, I figured I put it out there that I do automotive detailing during the summer. I have 25 years experience with a random orbital buffer (Porter Cable) and I used to do this as a full time job.

My services include an in-depth, two bucket wash of the car, followed by compounding using Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. I follow this with a polishing using Meguiar's Ultimate Polish until the paint is a perfect as it's going to safely get (I won't 'chase' deep swirls and scratches and risk taking too much clear off the paint). Finally I use Collinite 845 Insulator Wax (or 476s Super Double coat IF I can get it to play nice, 476s can be a difficult wax to apply).

**If you have any products you prefer to have used on your car, let me know and I will use them instead**

• Also included is cleaning/dressing the tires and cleaning/waxing the rims.
• A full vacuum and wipe down of the interior is also included, but I no longer steam or shampoo interiors (I'm too old & too fat to wiggle around inside a car to scrub and shampoo the seats & carpets ) Plus a full exterior detail on a car the size of a Camaro takes a full day by itself.
• Windows are cleaned inside & out then treated with RainX
• I come to you, the detail is done at your own home, you don't have to go anywhere.

All I ask for is that you be within an hour's drive of Akron or Cleveland, an electrical outlet to plug in my extension cord and a water source (garden hose) for proper washing and rinsing of the car.

**I leave my house at sun up and expect to be at yours by no later than 9:30am/10:00 am. I plan on the detail taking until 6:00-7:00pm or later: I stop at dark unless you have lights.


So what the bottom line?

For an average car, I make $150. If the car is black, I add $25 since black shows EVERYTHING and is a bit harder to work on. If for some reason, the compounding/polishing/waxing cannot be completed in one day (this has never happened to me yet), then I charge $50 ($75 if over 4 hours on the 2nd day) to finish the job.


**Tipping is always welcome**

[Setec Astronomy]

Maybe no one has seen it yet who is within an hour's drive? Plus not only do they have to be within that radius, but they have to want to have someone else detail their car. I would guess if you are a "Camaro Enthusiast" half of those forum members do their own "detailing".

We have a lot of members here, but I'm not sure if I posted a thread just asking if there was someone within an hour of where I live whether I'd get any replies in 3 days.

[cardaddy]

I don't know if this is the right place to put this, but I wanted opinions. I posted this on a Camaro Enthusiasts forum and so far (3 days) I have only gotten 28 views and no replies. I was wondering if there was/is something else I could do to drum up a little bit of business?



Since it's almost that time of year, I figured I put it out there that I do automotive detailing during the summer. I have 25 years experience with a random orbital buffer (Porter Cable) and I used to do this as a full time job.

My services include an in-depth, two bucket wash of the car, followed by compounding using Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. I follow this with a polishing using Meguiar's Ultimate Polish until the paint is a perfect as it's going to safely get (I won't 'chase' deep swirls and scratches and risk taking too much clear off the paint). Finally I use Collinite 845 Insulator Wax (or 476s Super Double coat IF I can get it to play nice, 476s can be a difficult wax to apply).

**If you have any products you prefer to have used on your car, let me know and I will use them instead**

• Also included is cleaning/dressing the tires and cleaning/waxing the rims.
• A full vacuum and wipe down of the interior is also included, but I no longer steam or shampoo interiors (I'm too old & too fat to wiggle around inside a car to scrub and shampoo the seats & carpets ) Plus a full exterior detail on a car the size of a Camaro takes a full day by itself.
• Windows are cleaned inside & out then treated with RainX
• I come to you, the detail is done at your own home, you don't have to go anywhere.

All I ask for is that you be within an hour's drive of Akron or Cleveland, an electrical outlet to plug in my extension cord and a water source (garden hose) for proper washing and rinsing of the car.

**I leave my house at sun up and expect to be at yours by no later than 9:30am/10:00 am. I plan on the detail taking until 6:00-7:00pm or later: I stop at dark unless you have lights.


So what the bottom line?

For an average car, I make $150. If the car is black, I add $25 since black shows EVERYTHING and is a bit harder to work on. If for some reason, the compounding/polishing/waxing cannot be completed in one day (this has never happened to me yet), then I charge $50 ($75 if over 4 hours on the 2nd day) to finish the job.


**Tipping is always welcome**

Don, well.... there are a lot of things I see in the way you put that out there that might be contributing factors as to why nobody has called you up on your (IMO) FAR TOO GENEROUS offer. Yet some other things in your text raise questions.

Note: in direct quotes (I'm leaving spacing, spelling and grammatical errors in place.)

First... experience is great, and 25 years is even better... but nobody needs to know that it's "with a random orbital buffer (Porter Cable) and I used to do this as a full time job". Rather be saying, I have 25 years experience in paint correction.

Same thing with using particular products. Nothing wrong with Meguiar's, nothing AT ALL. Especially as most of us use either Megs or Menzerna as the ones we reach for most often. Heck... I have a Meguiar's banner in my garage! Not however that there are not PLENTY of others out there, 3D/HD, CarPro, Rupes, Griot's (BOSS), Optimum, and a whole warehouse full of house brands from Autogeek just to name a few. But saying "followed by compounding using Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. I follow this with a polishing using Meguiar's Ultimate Polish until the paint is a perfect as it's going to safely get (I won't 'chase' deep swirls and scratches and risk taking too much clear off the paint)." is something that your prospective client just doesn't need to read. (Never mind the spelling and spacing errors.)

Simplify that!
I use Meguiar's professional products for proven results.

And the LAST thing you need to be telling them along the line of products being used is that you'll use something THEY come up with. What if it's someone that knows a bit about detailing and tells you he wants Swissvax and he wants SPECIFICALLY.... "CRYSTAL ROCK - Paul Dalton's state-of-the-art Carnauba Glaze", which is $1499 PER TUB!!! Or he says he only wants Optimum, or 3D/HD, or Menzerna, or Wolfgang....

Point I'm making here is IF you've been doing this for 25 years (or used to do it full time) then it doesn't MATTER at all WHAT you use, but WHAT - YOU - DO, and the RESULTS you get with what you use.

The Collinite statement, and how one works (or doesn't) and another works (or doesn't) just adds to the aura of not knowing what works, or at least being uncertain.

IMHO there are several places where you've just gone off toward TMI, (in a way that they don't need to know/read/hear). Then other areas where you SHOULD be giving them information, but don't. Least of which is "I'm too old & too fat to wiggle around inside a car to scrub and shampoo the seats & carpets".

If you are not including an interior detail with paint correction, then SAY THAT. Don't make excuses that you're too fat to do it. Doesn't paint a pretty picture brother. And hey... I'm too crippled to do a LOT of what I do, but when it comes time to do what needs doing... then I do it. Sell them an interior detail, sell it at $150 (and up), and make it worth it. They'll either be willing to pay your price for it, or they won't. Sell your paint correction AS paint correction. Trust me here. I absolutely WILL NOT work on trashed out, food filled, milkshake spilled, crayon covered, kid destroyed (or adult destroyed) interiors. That is NOT my target market.

So how do you tactfully get out of not doing those jobs? Don't tell them you're physically unable to do it. Instead... tell them your prices START at $195, or $295 for that matter, and your rates go up depending on inspection of the interior condition. If they bite, then do the job. Chances are the owners of the trashed out vehicles will never be willing to pay what a REAL detailer charges.

And RainX.... oh brother.... don't get me started there. The statement however is a bit confusing to those that don't know, and maybe worse for those that do. RainX on the inside and out would be a nightmare!

Better yet... Windows are cleaned inside and out, with glass sealant applied to the exterior glass.

Nothing wrong with telling someone you come to them. But you need to be careful there. Might have to be more specific... in that you can perform work at a residence, providing they have access to power and water. (Assuming you don't have a mobile rig with a water tank.) You certainly don't need someone scheduling an appointment only to show up and find out they live in an apartment or condo with cars parked right next to theirs and no access to power, water, or even a place to work!

The hours drive thing you understand, but it's be better to perhaps work on a specific radius, or zip codes. Never mind the fact that some days that hour drive (with traffic may take TWO).

Along that line of thinking...
I (and the prospective client) could CARE LESS what time you leave your house. You may leave at 2:00am and hit the Waffle House for all they know, just doesn't matter. If you're trying to get across the idea that you are working sun up, to sun set, then SAY IT. Or at least something along those lines. If you need sunlight to do your work, then nobody expects you to work in the dark. Then again... doing paint correction you better have at least ONE dual-head halogen that you can use, even during the day. Especially as you'll likely be using a portable pop-up shelter to keep from working in direct sunlight.

"So what is the bottom line?" followed by "For an average car, I make $150. If the car is black, I add $25 since black shows EVERYTHING and is a bit harder to work on. If for some reason, the compounding/polishing/waxing cannot be completed in one day (this has never happened to me yet), then I charge $50 ($75 if over 4 hours on the 2nd day) to finish the job."

Those statements in and of themselves just come out of nowhere.

What you MAKE??????
You don't MAKE anything.... you CHARGE a specific rate for your services.

For instance....

My rates are:

Wash and wax (spray wax) - $xxx
Sealant upgrade - $xxx
Single step buff - $xxx
Dual-Step buff - $xxx

You can't tell someone that you charge more for their car just because it's black. They'll NEVER understand that going in. SURE... you can explain it, and WHY there is a difference between black and other colors. Like for instance the pigment in black is carbon black, which is basically charcoal, which is soft, and the pigment is white is titanium dioxide, is hard, and is used in sandpaper! Of course that's an over simplification, but it's basic, and the principles hold true.

Instead... charge MORE for ALL of your work. Remember, you don't MAKE anything, you have RATES for your jobs.

And finally....
I read your 'ad' to CarMomma... then let her read it. First thing she said when she saw $150 for a TWO STEP paint correction (yes, she called it paint correction, and TWO STEPS) was; "I wouldn't wash and wax a new Camaro, (including the interior vacuum and wipedown) for less than $150. And I wouldn't even CONSIDER buffing it for that!"

And therein is where the problem lies....

Perhaps what has happened is folks that are out there are reading your *ad*, then figuring that there is simply no way that you'll be able to show up, from as far as an hour away, then work from early morning, to sundown, do a complete 2-bucket wash, clean the interior (as best a fat man can wiggle around in it), do the windows with Rain-X, followed by a two-step "compounding" and "polishing", then topping all that with one or another Collinite product... "IF I can get it to play nice",(providing you don't have to charge extra for black) or you don't have to come back "If for some reason, the compounding/polishing/waxing cannot be completed in one day (this has never happened to me yet), then I charge $50 ($75 if over 4 hours on the 2nd day) to finish the job." and all for the SIMPLY AMAZINGLY CHEAP PRICE OF $150 is just too good to be true! Or too confusing, whichever comes first.

I applaud you though on NEVER having to take a 2-stage paint correction into a second day however. You are a far better man than I, far better indeed. For were it me... day one goes like this...
Complete THREE bucket wash (dedicated wheel, suspension bucket)
Clean wheels, tires, rims, wheel wells, lower suspension parts, springs, struts etc. (that can be reached with Daytona brushes), along with exhaust tips, rocker panels, front and rear lower valences.
This part takes at least 60~90 minutes.
Clean door jambs, hood and trunk jambs, emblems, and grill with boars hair brushes, towels, sprays, etc.
Another 30~45 minutes.
Wash entire vehicle, including snow foam, rinse, IRON-X, rinse, snow foam, wash/agitate, rinse, Nanoskin/clay, rinse
Another 1~2 hours
Clean windows inside and out, dry jambs, dry exterior with blower and/or towels.
Another 60 minutes
Apply tire gel
Another 20~30 minutes.
Vacuum interior, complete wipe down top to bottom, address vents, cracks, crevices with multiple tools, brushes, etc.
Wipe down with protectant.
NOTE... does not include major carpet extraction. Does include spot treating/extracting mats.
Another 1~4 hours depending on "package"

Prep for compounding step, including taping off all trim, cracks and crevices, body lines, etc.
Another 1~2 hours depending on vehicle.

Day 1 is WELL OVER by now!

Day 2, compounding begins.
Time allowed from 3~8 hours minimum

Day 3, polishing begins.
Time allowed from 2~5 hours.

Between compounding and polishing steps taped areas are addressed. Some tape is removed, other is moved/removed.
Possible to get day 2 and 3 done in a single day depending on 'package'. Then again... may need to add Day 4 and 5.

After compounding and polishing... time to apply sealant.

OR....

Time to prep for coating, (enter day 4).

End of Day 3, (or Day 4) thorough exam of all work. Remove any last tape, touch up any areas/high spots/smears etc.
Apply exterior trim sealant last thing in the process. Find a long tall glass of sweet iced tea and call it a week!

[Don M]

Cardaddy and Setec.

Thanks for the honest (and in Cardaddy's case, DETAILED) responses. I will definitely have to rethink and rework (reword) any such ads that I put out in the future.

[Steelman]

Cardaddy /AKA - Tony,

Thank you for your detailed responses. They have given me a few ideas on what to say and what not to say in a promo flyer.

[AGOatemywallet]

Wow

You should be happy that very few people actually read your post on the Camaro Forum, as it may have destroyed any chance of Detailing for them.

I cannot imagine anyone I know responding to your Ad and requesting a Detail.


Cardaddy has been very generous with his time, please follow his advice or maybe, just go to work part-time for another Detailer.

[Don M]

Wow

You should be happy that very few people actually read your post on the Camaro Forum, as it may have destroyed any chance of Detailing for them.

I cannot imagine anyone I know responding to your Ad and requesting a Detail.


Cardaddy has been very generous with his time, please follow his advice or maybe, just go to work part-time for another Detailer.

I doubt there will be a 'next time.' I am good at what I do and I have had several coworkers have me detail their cars. Unfortunately, no one around here cares about their cars at all ... a "Full Serve" touchless wash is the pinnacle of auto appearance care. Even after seeing my car, no one is interested and certainly not at a price that would be acceptable in ANY detailing circles.

I just thought that if I put it out there in an non-detailing car enthusiast forum, I could at least wrangle a few cars and get the word of mouth advertising thing going.

Well meaning, but not well thought out.

Perhaps I'm better off just letting people see my car and having them ask if I can do that for theirs instead of offering my services.

[AGOatemywallet]

. Even after seeing my car, no one is interested and certainly not at a price that would be acceptable in ANY detailing circles.

Perhaps I'm better off just letting people see my car and having them ask if I can do that for theirs instead of offering my services.

These two statements seem to be in conflict.

[cardaddy]

No problem Don.

DO KNOW that I don't mean to attack or denigrate what-so-ever. Also... note that I didn't address your WORK, (because that'll speak for itself).

Just wanted you to know that it looks different from another prospective. From the outside looking in... folks need to know nothing but how professional you are, PERIOD! And how that equates to YOU charging two, three, FIVE times what the corner suds and scratch place does. (And trust me... I FEEL YA' on how the locals think the suds-n-scratch is the be-all end-all of vehicle appearance!)

What you use, how you use it, when, where, whether this works, that works, where you're coming from, going, how long your staying for that matter.... all that is inconsequential to the matter at hand when you're posting text (or they're reading text, whether that be on a forum, flyer, direct mailer, even a business card). Heck... you may find that some ol' fart thinks Turtle snot er... Wax is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and between that and Ajax with a dish rag to wash with, and a bath towel to dry with.... that's ALL that ***HE*** thinks you need to use. Your job... that'll be to show him that YOU know what to use, what works, and can achieve better results than he's ever seen, or even dreamed about. All while he doesn't have to lift a finger.


I *DO* however think that if you're really doing a 2-step correction that you will have a heckofa' problem doing that in a day. Better yet... I'd switch to another AIO capable compound and offer THAT as a single-day option. (In this instance I'm using AIO more to designate a compound capable of doing something along the lines of a 75%~90% correction, and not a 1-step cleaner/polish/sealant product. Because I will *ALWAYS* finish any buffing with some sort of sealant, whether that be spray on or liquid.)

Speaking of...
Take Menzerna FG400, or now... UC400. You can use that as a single-step product, even a (what I refer to as) a 1.5 step product. That's just a matter of starting with a heavy cutting pad (MF, yellow, orange), then finishing with a lighter cut pad (white, blue) and you'd be AMAZED at how well it'll finish.

[Don M]

No problem Don.

DO KNOW that I don't mean to attack or denigrate what-so-ever. Also... note that I didn't address your WORK, (because that'll speak for itself).

Just wanted you to know that it looks different from another prospective. From the outside looking in... folks need to know nothing but how professional you are, PERIOD! And how that equates to YOU charging two, three, FIVE times what the corner suds and scratch place does. (And trust me... I FEEL YA' on how the locals think the suds-n-scratch is the be-all end-all of vehicle appearance!)

What you use, how you use it, when, where, whether this works, that works, where you're coming from, going, how long your staying for that matter.... all that is inconsequential to the matter at hand when you're posting text (or they're reading text, whether that be on a forum, flyer, direct mailer, even a business card). Heck... you may find that some ol' fart thinks Turtle snot er... Wax is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and between that and Ajax with a dish rag to wash with, and a bath towel to dry with.... that's ALL that ***HE*** thinks you need to use. Your job... that'll be to show him that YOU know what to use, what works, and can achieve better results than he's ever seen, or even dreamed about. All while he doesn't have to lift a finger.


I *DO* however think that if you're really doing a 2-step correction that you will have a heckofa' problem doing that in a day. Better yet... I'd switch to another AIO capable compound and offer THAT as a single-day option. (In this instance I'm using AIO more to designate a compound capable of doing something along the lines of a 75%~90% correction, and not a 1-step cleaner/polish/sealant product. Because I will *ALWAYS* finish any buffing with some sort of sealant, whether that be spray on or liquid.)

Speaking of...
Take Menzerna FG400, or now... UC400. You can use that as a single-step product, even a (what I refer to as) a 1.5 step product. That's just a matter of starting with a heavy cutting pad (MF, yellow, orange), then finishing with a lighter cut pad (white, blue) and you'd be AMAZED at how well it'll finish.

Cardaddy

No worries I never once thought that you were attacking me or my abilities, it was clear (even to me) that after reading everyone's responses to my post that the "Ad" was far from thought out and I never thought to try and see it from the outside, I have a bad habit of believing that people understand what I'm meaning - even if I say it in a messed up or abbreviated way. I'll have a clear picture in my head of what I mean, but sometimes I have trouble expressing CLEARLY what's in my head. Too, I didn't take into account that so many of my comments could be seen as weaknesses and as examples of me not knowing what I'm doing or being unsure of my products & abilities. Thank you for the in depth response to my question, I will take it to heart if I ever decide to post something like that again.

P.S.
I DID delete the post from the Camaro forum



Originally Posted by Don M
. Even after seeing my car, no one is interested and certainly not at a price that would be acceptable in ANY detailing circles.

Perhaps I'm better off just letting people see my car and having them ask if I can do that for theirs instead of offering my services.

AGOatemywallet "These two statements seem to be in conflict."




This is part of what I meant with what I said to Cardaddy about KNOWING what mean, but being UNCLEAR about what I mean. The first part is referring to how the people at work can SEE what I'm capable of, but yet don't want to pay a reasonable price for the services.

The second part is referring to the thought that if I could go to a few enthusiast functions and get a few camaro enthusiasts to see what I can do, then maybe they will ask about bringing their own cars appearance up to the level of mine.

Either way, it's my bad f or not thinking things out and trying to be clearer.