What Happened? Meguiars Microfiber vs Rupes Foam Pads

[dan45hk]

What Happened? Meguiars Microfiber vs Rupes Foam Pads

I'm working on a black Mercedes 2011 E550. I tried out the 3" Meguiars white fine microfiber pads on a Rupes mini speed 4 on the rear bumper (first time using microfiber for correction) with Uber compound.

I wasn't getting good results and started to press down a little harder but nothing crazy IMO.

I ended up getting a semi-translucent white spot on the bumper the size of the pad with a smaller circle inside it about 1" in diameter that was opaque.

Luckily it came out with an CCS orange pad on the 15ES and Wolfgang Finishing Glaze. I switched the mini over to a Rupes yellow fine pad, speed 4, and was getting amazing results, much better correction, faster, and close to LSP ready.

Again I used Uber with the yellow fine 3" pad.

So why did I get that white spot?
(It wouldn't buff off with just a microfiber BTW)


Why did I get much better correction with a fine foam pad vs microfiber?
(Thought microfiber gave faster correction)

[Mike Phillips]

I'm working on a black Mercedes 2011 E550.

I buffed out one of these lately, it was non-metallic black and NOT a Cermiclear paint system and I thought the paint buffed horrible.

So why did I get that white spot? (It wouldn't buff off with just a microfiber BTW)

Sounds like the product dried up like glue on the paint? Quirky things happen some time.

Why did I get much better correction with a fine foam pad vs microfiber? (Thought microfiber gave faster correction)

That don't sound right? Are you talking about working in the same place over over the entire car?


I still tend to prefer foam pads over microfiber pads but then I don't do product work and if I need correction speed I go with wool and a rotary and just get it over with.

[dan45hk]

That don't sound right? Are you talking about working in the same place over over the entire car?

On the same rear bumper I tried a different spot with the foam pad and it took out all the defects faster and easier. I also tried the Rupes microfiber pads and they worked a little better than Meguiars but not nearly as well as the Rupes foam pad.

This is my first week using the Rupes. What speed would you recommend for jeweling with it?

[runrun411]

I still tend to prefer foam pads over microfiber pads but then I don't do product work and if I need correction speed I go with wool and a rotary and just get it over with.

Mike, what makes you prefer foam over microfiber pads?

[TundraPower]

I'm working on a black Mercedes 2011 E550. I tried out the 3" Meguiars white fine microfiber pads on a Rupes mini speed 4 on the rear bumper (first time using microfiber for correction) with Uber compound. I wasn't getting good results and started to press down a little harder but nothing crazy IMO. I ended up getting a semi-translucent white spot on the bumper the size of the pad with a smaller circle inside it about 1" in diameter that was opaque. Luckily it came out with an CCS orange pad on the 15ES and Wolfgang Finishing Glaze. I switched the mini over to a Rupes yellow fine pad, speed 4, and was getting amazing results, much better correction, faster, and close to LSP ready. Again I used Uber with the yellow fine 3" pad. So why did I get that white spot? (It wouldn't buff off with just a microfiber BTW) Why did I get much better correction with a fine foam pad vs microfiber? (Thought microfiber gave faster correction)

I use Meg's and Rupes blue MF pads with the Rupes Mini extensively and get outstanding results. However, I have never used Uber compound, only Rupes Zephir. The white spot is from the polish turning to glue and marring the surfaces. Meg's MF pads run really hot on Rupes polishers. Rupes run much cooler but are not quite as aggressive. Since this is your first time using them, review your technique, and remember that you must keep any MF clean at all times.

[Christopher.Brown]

Why did I get much better correction with a fine foam pad vs microfiber? (Thought microfiber gave faster correction)

There can be no single paint correction formula to solve all types of paint! Even two cars painted back to back in the same factory can have DRASTICALLY differing paint down the road.

For example...

Two of the exact model cars, say 5 years old, painted back to back in the same factory can react completely different to corrective steps. This could be because Car A was shipped to Arizona and was a primary daily driver, subject to being parked outside in the intensely hot desert sun. Also, year after year minimal paint maintenance was performed, allowing the elements to wear the clear coat dangerously thin. Whereas, Car B was shipped to southern California and was made into a weekend cruiser/garage queen and the owners hobby was to care for the paint every 3 months on the dot, so the car remained flawless.

Therefore definitive answers cannot be given to your particular issue without being able to be there, inspect the paint, and ask evaluative questions. Then after it would be VITAL to perform a variety of test spots to further diagnose the issues and find some plausible solutions...

However, i will say this:

On super soft or finicky paint, a pad that good amount of play [movement] to the surface, be it microfiber and or a soft pad, will cause the face to fold up under itself. This can cause a variety of issues for inconsistent finishing.

Therefore, at times, a more rigid pad is necessary to keep correction at a optimal rate. This is because the rigid structure of a pad will keep the pad surface flat and thus always engage the polish in an even and consistant manner while effectively squeege-ing away the paint residue of the freshly corrected paint.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike, what makes you prefer foam over microfiber pads?

Here's what I always say, you can quote me on this....


All things being equal, foam pads will finish out nicer and more consistently on a wider spectrum of paint systems than microfiber pads.



So if anyone is trying to increase the potential for success and reduce the potential for failure, (at least for the finishing step on what we all know are scratch-sensitive clearcoat paint systems), then you'll have a better chance with foam versus any fiber pad.


The fibers that make up any fiber style pad, be it microfiber pad or a wool cutting pad or a purple foamed pad or even a Surbuf pad can act as an abrasive in and of themselves.

The individual fibers that make up a fiber pad have the ability to cut the paint just like an abrasive particle.

Nothing wrong with this if you're doing correction work but not if you're trying to create the best finish during your last machine polishing step.


The microfiber pad system introduced by Meguiar's was originally targeted to the production detailing industry to replace the use of rotary buffers to help change the industry.

We all know what the traditional detailing industry does and that's swirl-out cars with holograms. It's still happening today. Last Saturday I buffed out a BRAND NEW 2014 BMW with HOLOGRAMS from a rotary buffer from the BMW Dealership. Now in today's day and age this is a crime against the paint, a crime against the car and a crime against the owner as it destroys the paint they just paid for.


Back to the point....

Originally the Meguiar's Microfiber DA Correction System was created for and targeted at replacing the rotary buffer in production detailing environments to end holograms while improving customer satisfaction as well as solving a host of other issues like training curve, consistent results, etc.

Since then more microfiber pads have been introduced by other companies but not as a "system" to the degree that Meguiar's created. And now, Meguiar's has introduced more pads and chemicals for their system to enable it to be used on a wider spectrum of paint systems including re-paints. The original system was formulated for factory paints. That is harder paints.


So why do I like foam over microfiber?


First, I don't do a lot of production detailing work. Almost all the cars I detail are either brand new or custom cars like muscle cars, streetrods or classics with custom paint, that is they no longer have a factory paint job but have been re-painted at a body shop.

Production detailing is doing one or two steps to (for the most part), newer cars with normally factory paint unless they've been wrecked and repainted.

So I don't need the fiber part of the microfiber pad do do my correction step. I'll either use a wool pad on a rotary buffer or a foam pad on a rotary buffer or a foam pad on a dual action polisher.


I also like the cushion provided by foam pads versus the stiffness of "most" microfiber pads. Lake Country and Optimum both have microfiber pads with thicker foam backing so these pads provide plenty of cushion, but we're still back to the fiber issue.

Now all of the above is just me... It's my preference. I know a LOT of guys love microfiber pads and that's all that really counts, what works for a person and what they like.

For the record, because I worked for Meguiar's from 1987 to around 1990 and then again from 2002 to 2009, I was given the original Microfiber Pads invented by Claude Sevigny back in probably 2005. Now back then we didn't have the chemicals/abrasive technology we have today so they was still work going on to dial these new type of pad in and as we can all see it took quite a few years before the pads were officially released.

Suffice to say, Richard Lin and I buffed out the factory paint on the 2006 Viper using these early Meguiar's microfiber pads and Meguiar's M86 Mirror Glaze Solo Cut & Polish Cream when it was first introduced and I was BLOWN AWAY but how well the microfiber pads and M86 removed all the swirls, scratches and water spots out of what I would call a HARD factory paint system way back then. (That's 8 years ago).


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After






Good question.... thank you for asking....

[Mike Phillips]

There can be no single paint correction formula to solve all types of paint! Even two cars painted back to back in the same factory can have DRASTICALLY differing paint down the road.



For example...

Two of the exact model cars, say 5 years old, painted back to back in the same factory can react completely different to corrective steps.

Actually, it doesn't even take 5 years for the paint on a specific make and model coming out of the factory to be different. I have a thread that documents this with two identical cars only one year apart.


This was posted in 2008

Paint Workability - The Hardness or Softness of your car's paint



And along what you're saying Christopher, I got the idea from this article from Mike Penning and of course gave due credit where credit is due. It's also in my how-to book with due credit where credit is due....

The Graphic Equalizer Analogy to Polishing Paint


Mike Pennington, the Director of Training for Meguiar's, gave me this analogy a long time ago so I want to give him credit for it because it's a good analogy BUT you have to be old enough to remember Graphic Equalizers.

Graphic Equalizers





The analogy being that you can adjust your pad, product, tool and technique just like you can adjust music using a graphic equalizer and when everything is dialed-in perfect for the paint you're working on you'll get the results you're looking for.

It does mean sometimes playing around a little to find the perfect combination of products and procedures kind of like adjusting a graphic equalizer for a single song so it sounds perfect to your ears.

When everything is right... you'll make beautiful music or in this case you create a show car finish.

Of course in order to experiment it means you need to have more than one product in your arsenal of detailing products.

Usually, a good compound, a couple of polishes with correction ability, a finishing polish and some LSP's, this could include cleaner/waxes and finishing waxes.

Clay, Car Wash, Microfiber Towels and if you work by machine then a variety of buffing pads and if you work by hand then a variety of hand applicator pads.