Original 1971 dodge metallic paint, There but abused.

[boatmangc]

I am having a 1971 Dodge Charger delivered to me to do an original paint correction on it as well as a full detail and correcting a few non-factory mechanical add-ons. It has been garage kept and it is not oxidized, just badly abused.
I am curious what your ideas are on how to proceed with the paint. I don't have or intend to use a rotary polisher just a PC.







Thanks in advance.

[Mike Phillips]

That's in really nice shape to be original, it must have always been stored indoors?

If you rub on the paint you should see the color of the paint coming off easily onto your applicator pad, if you just see the color of the polish you use to test for single stage or basecoat/clearcoat then it's been repainted and has a modern finish.

Real single stage paints oxidize easily and clear coats finishes get swirled easily but don't oxidize easily, that paint looks like a clear coat system.

If it is a clear coat paint system then get some M105 or Ultimate Compound with some 5.5" thin pads like these, especially if you have a first generation Porter Cable and not the new XP model.

Thin is in... New Lake Country Hydro-Tech Low Profile 5 1/2 x 7/8 Inch Foam Pads


I've been playing around with these new thin foam buffing pads and really like them. The thinness makes it a breeze for all DA Polishers to maintain rotation and oscillation when removing swirls, water spots, oxidation and scratches.

These will be a great pad for anyone still using a first generation PC or Meguiar's G100, see this article...

How to maximize the ability of the 1st Generation Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers


Here's a couple pictures I took to show the difference between the thickness of the new 7/8" pads and the 1 1/4" version of these pads.

[Mike Phillips]

This article on capturing GREAT before shots for any kind of detailing project that you want to showcase your skill and abilities shows what old single stage paint usually looks like...


The power in the after shots is created in the before shots


Before


One half covered and taped-off


Before and after results


After







If you haven't read the above thread, it's a good read for special projects like classic cars...

[Mike Phillips]

For anyone reading this into the future... here's an article on how to revive and restore a genuine, original, antique single stage paint job that is in poor condition if the goal is to preserve it and not repaint the car...

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints


Before




After - Here's the "Beauty Shot" with the final results

[boatmangc]

Thanks Mike, good stuff i read these articles before posting.
I am pretty accomplished in clear coat correction and proper products for it but I haven't worked with single stage paint since I sold my original paint 69 Road Runner in 1986.
I am excited to have the privilege of working with this car.
This appears to be original paint, I have only found a few touch up spots down in the rocker panels, mainly rock chip repairs done by the owner.
He has owned it and garage kept the covered car since 1980 in Az. The interior is in even better shape than the outside!

It is really in amazing condition and I have been communicating with the big auction houses about the car. GTS says that if the car proves to be numbers matching it will be 1 0f 38 known to still exist in the US, and probably the only one with original paint.
My intentions are not a total correction but a lessening of the marring in the finish. I understand the value of patina on a survivor car.
I have many photos of the car showing the ID plates and stickers none of which show any overspray or tape marks, the door jambs etc are virgin. I don't remember seeing one this clean in the late 70s in south Florida, I guess it is true what they say about Az. cars.
So my question remains. I am pretty comfortable with the Menzerna Twins as well as Sonus Products. Are these products applicable for this deicate old paint?
I will definitely bu using multiple coats of #7 before trying any of the polishing.
I also really like the waterless cleaner idea for this car, I ran a duster over it and it appears to be really clean, so I plan on doing;
Waterless paint cleansing
Clay bar
4 coats of #7 by hand.
PC with MIP and a white pad and if not enough an orange pad followed by white pad,
Then MFP with a gray pad.
Then hand applied Carnuba.
Am I on the right track?
I noticed on the Lincoln you applied Carnuba before polishing. Was this just to get a status report?

[boatmangc]

Carnauba...oops

[Mike Phillips]

I am excited to have the privilege of working with this car.
This appears to be original paint, I have only found a few touch up spots down in the rocker panels, mainly rock chip repairs done by the owner.
He has owned it and garage kept the covered car since 1980 in Az. The interior is in even better shape than the outside!

It is really in amazing condition and I have been communicating with the big auction houses about the car. GTS says that if the car proves to be numbers matching it will be 1 0f 38 known to still exist in the US, and probably the only one with original paint.

Wow! How exciting for you!

My intentions are not a total correction but a lessening of the marring in the finish. I understand the value of patina on a survivor car.

So my question remains. I am pretty comfortable with the Menzerna Twins as well as Sonus Products. Are these products applicable for this delicate old paint?

If it were me I would go with the Menzerna polishes and the Intensive Polish with a polishing pad will/should remove a majority of the swirls shown in your pictures as old single stage paint is fairly soft.

I also really like the waterless cleaner idea for this car,

For everyone reading this, usually you don't get cars like this wet as it gets water into areas you cannot reach to dry which is a rust issue, thus the use of a waterless wash.

I will definitely bu using multiple coats of #7 before trying any of the polishing.

Because it looks to be in exceptionally great condition, if you do the M07 rub-down before doing the work step, I would guess one really well worked application would get the job done. But you can if you like, maybe do two and use soft terry cloth... maybe take some pictures like I did of what the towel looks like after working the #7 if there's anything to share.

I noticed on the Lincoln you applied Carnauba before polishing. Was this just to get a status report?

No... if you read that section carefully, what I wrote was that "some people" would want to STOP after the #7 steps by hand and do no further correction work. Some of these people would not wax, just maintain with the #7 and some would choose to seal the surface with a wax. So for the people in the latter group I took the process to the next step and sealed the paint using Dodo Juice Banana Armor.

If you notice after that I then included a section for machine polishing for anyone that would want to take the process even further and even mentioned for the machine step you could use your favorite products.

This is really the kind of project that would be great to document for your own personal reasons with pictures and text to showcase your skills and abilities as people that own cars like this don't usually let anyone work on the paint as they don't know what to do and they don't trust anyone to actually know what they're doing.

You obviously do know what you're doing.

Have fun with it you lucky dog...

[tuscarora dave]

Mike, would an original metallic paint on a car like that have aluminum metal flake? If so the pads would turn black right?

[Mike Phillips]

Mike, would an original metallic paint on a car like that have aluminum metal flake? If so the pads would turn black right?

As far as I know the metallic paints back then used aluminum flakes and because there's no clear layer of paint covering over the colored or pigmented layer of paint, then you'll usually get some blackish residue coming off "if" the paint is neglected and the aluminum flake has oxidized.

I used an aluminum wheel to help explain how this works in this article,

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

Single Stage Metallic Paint = Difficult to Restore
Single stage, non-metallic paints like the above paint on the Ranchero are actually very easy to fix because the problem is for the most part just topical, that is the problem is just on the surface. All you have to do is remove the dead paint off the surface and if there's enough paint left then it's just a matter of polishing what's left to a high gloss. The most difficult paints to restore are single stage metallic paints.

The reason single stage metallic paints are the most difficult to restore is because not only does the paint itself oxidize, that is the resin used as the binder, (generally some type of seed oil like Flaxseed oil or Cottonseed oil), but also the aluminum flakes embodied inside the paint oxidize. This is where the problem lies.

It's a problem because the entire exterior surface of each individual aluminum flake oxidizes over time but you and I can only work on the surface of the paint and thus we can only work on the portion of the flake that is exposed at the surface level. Any portion of each aluminum flake that is below the surface and is surrounded by paint cannot be cleaned or polished so there's no way to remove the oxidation on the portions of the flakes inside the paint.

Oxidized Aluminum Turns Black
With metallic single stage paints, oxidation can show up as a darkening effect on medium to light colored paints because the aluminum metal flakes embodied inside the paint will stain or discolor the paint with a grayish black color.


If you’ve ever polished uncoated aluminum then you’ve seen this grayish black color coming off the aluminum and onto your polishing cloth as you work a metal polish over it. This same type of oxidation is taking place to the aluminum flake inside the paint.

Polishing Uncoated Aluminum





Oxidized Aluminum Comes Off Black

Wolfgang MetallWerk™ Aluminum Polishing System


In the same way you see the black residue coming off the aluminum wheel onto the piece of white cotton terry cloth material above, when working on metallic single stage paints you will see black residue coming off the paint and onto you applicator pads, buffing pads and wiping towels.


This darkening effect can take place even at the same time the surface of the paint itself is turning chalky white. This is because you have two different substances oxidizing, both the paint and the aluminum flake, which both are oxidizing at the same time. The paint oxidizes white and the aluminum flake oxidizes black.

Note the color of the residue on the white terry cloth towel even though the color of the paint is butterscotch...

After approximately 12 hours of soaking in #7 Show Car Glaze, we're ready to wipe off the first application off this 37-year old paint.





Look at the paint surrounding the towel...
In the picture below, note how after just one well-worked application of #7 the finish is now more smooth and clear and the color is more vibrant and even.




Look at the color of the residue coming off the paint and onto the white terry cloth towel; it's black. The single stage paint is butterscotch gold.

Question: Where's the blackness coming from?
Answer: The aluminum flake.


One of the benefits that we enjoy when car manufacturers switched over to basecoat/clearcoat paint technology is there's a clear layer of paint covering over the color coat of paint and this seals the paint and keeps it from oxidizing and deteriorating. This enables metallic finishes to last for a long time without oxidizing and this is why you no longer see any black residue coming off modern metallic finishes.

One thing that anyone buffing out a single stage metallic finish has to be very careful about is not to induce Tiger Stripes into the paint.

Tiger Stripes is where you have buffed too much and thus remove too much paint and flake and you can actually see what looks like stripes in the paint in the direction you've moved the buffer. Once you do this there's no way to undo the damage and buffing more and more will only make the problem worse and worse.

With single stage metallic paints, you can only remove so much material.


So be careful anytime you buff on older, single stage metallic paints.

[boatmangc]

Precisely why there is no buffer in the arsenal for this car, I spent part of Saturday removing buffer damage from black clear coat. Some genius used it to remove water spots.....