How can I avoid Rotary Buffer Swirls/holograms

[jahman]

In the past week I have buffed a large number of older, less cared for cars from friends and family to get as much practice as possible. I'm using a PC 7424XP and a Flex LK603VE rotary buffer that I bought used along with some wool pads. Needless to say I'm in love with the flex buffer. It takes one hour to buff a car that would take several hours with the PC, and the results I'm getting are getting are simply amazing.

Reading this forum you'd get the sense that for someone new to using buffers like myself shouldn't even think about touching a rotary buffer. But I don't really understand why everyone is so afraid of them. Armed with the knowledge that you need to be careful, what to avoid, and some common sense you're really not going to hurt anything.

Getting to the point of this thread (finally)...I came across this thread...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...ing-paint.html

...and now I'm a bit paranoid that in the future I might do this to someone's car, even though I've had no problems thus far.

I've seen Rotary buffer swirls, holograms, buffer trails mentioned and pictured several times on this forum. But mainly the cause for this is only explained as "bad technique" and that the operator needs to be skilled to use a rotary buffer.

My question is that even though I'm not getting these holograms or swirls (yet) how can I avoid it? What exactly is the bad technique that is causing the disaster in those pictures?

[Erik Mejia]

Even with good technique, many times you will end up with holograms. Holograms mostly if not always, are caused by a combination of the pad, polish/ compound, and the rotary buffers action. Its going to be hard to avoid all holograms, but they are simpler to correct with proper technique, and good tools like a DA and some finer polishes. Not all paints will lend themselves to hologram free results with only using a rotary. It is achievable, but sometimes it easier, and less frustrating to pull out the PC and finish it that way.

I see lots of people who start out looking at the PC as a novice only tool. I guess its all the fuss over "jeweling" and finishing with a rotary only that gets everyone so confused. Yes it is true that certain polishes and pad combination will allow you to get perfect results with only a rotary, but it doesn't mean your results will be less impressive if you decided to finish with a DA. In the end its all about the final results, and not what tool you used to get them. You shouldn't be thought of as a lesser detailer if you can't always finish up hologram free with only a rotary buffer. Sometimes it makes more sense to go to a DA and save some time instead of spending endless hours trying break down a polish for minutes on end with the rotary.

Not to dissuade you, but I'll bet that if you do a wipe down of the vehicles you've done with the rotary only, and you take that car out into the sun you will probably see some holograms here and there. Technique will have a lot to do with how many you get, but also the type of polishes and pads you use make a huge difference. Just keep working on your technique and feel for the rotary, and don't get discouraged. Practice makes perfect. I love using my rotary, sometimes I'll go out and use it on my practice hood just for fun. Keeps the stress levels down.

[Rsurfer]

Even with good technique, many times you will end up with holograms. Holograms mostly if not always, are caused by a combination of the pad, polish/ compound, and the rotary buffers action. Its going to be hard to avoid all holograms, but they are simpler to correct with proper technique, and good tools like a DA and some finer polishes. Not all paints will lend themselves to hologram free results with only using a rotary. It is achievable, but sometimes it easier, and less frustrating to pull out the PC and finish it that way.

I see lots of people who start out looking at the PC as a novice only tool. I guess its all the fuss over "jeweling" and finishing with a rotary only that gets everyone so confused. Yes it is true that certain polishes and pad combination will allow you to get perfect results with only a rotary, but it doesn't mean your results will be less impressive if you decided to finish with a DA. In the end its all about the final results, and not what tool you used to get them. You shouldn't be thought of as a lesser detailer if you can't always finish up hologram free with only a rotary buffer. Sometimes it makes more sense to go to a DA and save some time instead of spending endless hours trying break down a polish for minutes on end with the rotary.

Not to dissuade you, but I'll bet that if you do a wipe down of the vehicles you've done with the rotary only, and you take that car out into the sun you will probably see some holograms here and there. Technique will have a lot to do with how many you get, but also the type of polishes and pads you use make a huge difference. Just keep working on your technique and feel for the rotary, and don't get discouraged. Practice makes perfect. I love using my rotary, sometimes I'll go out and use it on my practice hood just for fun. Keeps the stress levels down.

You are giving advice and still need a practice hood?

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

You are giving advice and still need a practice hood?

Wow Dad, you are on a roll tonight, but once again agree with you.

To the OP, yes the rotary is going to induce holograms when being used, especially during your correction stage of the detail. You can easily remove them in your second or third steps easily with practice. It will take time to figure out what pad and polish will work best with each given paint situation though. So keep practicing and like with anything else you will get better with time.

[Erik Mejia]

You are giving advice and still need a practice hood?

Of course, I test wax durability and new compounds and polishes on it. Why would I test them on my car and remove unnecessary amounts of paint. They're good to have around as you can scratch them up and mess with them with out any real concern.

I didn't see you give any advice, maybe you should, and see if we can't all collaboratively get the OP to the level he wants to be at with some good, constructive advice.

[Mike Phillips]

Let's keep the thread family friendly...

Forum Rules

1. No personal attacks toward members or non-members will be tolerated.

2. No arguing with Moderators or Administrators.

3. You are welcome to disagree but you must be polite.

4. No bashing any company or their products. No bashing other people. If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all, this also includes talking to others in a demeaning manner. REMEMBER this forum is here for those that are new to detailing and those that have been doing this for years. We expect that you treat everyone with respect no matter what their level of detailing is. We all had to start somewhere.

I have two practice hoods in the garage, you can call them practice hoods or "testing" hoods.

Practice makes perfect and testing is how you find out what works and what doesn't.

[Erik Mejia]

Will do Mike, and yes practice does make perfect. I learned that part of detailing from you.

Let's keep the thread family friendly...

Forum Rules




I have two practice hoods in the garage, you can call them practice hoods or "testing" hoods.

Practice makes perfect and testing is how you find out what works and what doesn't.

[Rsurfer]

Of course, I test wax durability and new compounds and polishes on it. Why would I test them on my car and remove unnecessary amounts of paint. They're good to have around as you can scratch them up and mess with them with out any real concern.

I didn't see you give any advice, maybe you should, and see if we can't all collaboratively get the OP to the level he wants to be at with some good, constructive advice.

Your quote: "I love using my rotary, sometimes I'll go out and use it on my practice hood just for fun. Keeps the stress levels down. " End quote. You did not say that you test waxes/compounds/polishes on it, you said you practice using your rotary. If you were skilled with a rotary you wouldn't need to practice on a practice hood. If you need to practice your rotary skills you shouldn't be giving advice because your not qualified to do so. Leave that up to guy's like Mike P and others who are more skilled than you.

[Mike Phillips]

I'm always learning...

I try to learn from others around me who have been detailing for decades and from guys who have been detailing for a few weeks, you never know when someone will come up with a new technique or share a new product with you that you've never seen before.

Eric is a skilled detailer and I've known him for years now, he's also a very nice and helpful person and at every class I've held that he's attended, and that's quite a few, I could always give him any portion of a detail project and trust that it would be done professionally.

So lets put this thread back on topic. If you want to share real how-to information for the Original Poster, then please feel free to do so but lets stop the all the rest of this bantering back and forth about non-related topics. Take it to Private Messaging or push away from the keyboard.

I'm going to close this thread and I'll open it back up tomorrow.

[Fly bye]

If you were skilled with a rotary, you wouldn't need to practice on a practice hood.

Just because someone is skilled at a particular sport, hobby, profession, or whatever, doesn't mean that they do not practice, or that they should not practice. How do you think they became professional

That's like saying professional racing drivers don't do practice laps, or professional football players don't train and practice during the off season.

you shouldn't be giving advice because your not qualified to do so.

Way to go champ