How many times can it be buffed?

**keeotee** · 07-10-2010, 08:03 AM

Starting with a new car and it being a daily driver, if one uses the PC DA and a light swirl remover and pad, how many times can the car be buffed and perhaps followed with a polish over say a ten year period?

In short, even if only a very minute amount of paint is removed, in time a limit must be reached.

Does this question even have a definitive answer? Has it ever been quantified?

**AeroCleanse** · 07-10-2010, 08:24 AM

Unless you have a coating thickness meter that can read each layer in the multi layer system (Defelsko PosiTector 200 Series advanced $2,695) then its almost impossible to say.

**cobalt9123** · 07-10-2010, 08:26 AM

No. It would depend entirely upon the type of car, type of paint, user application of the product, compound/polish/pad/wax selection, environment the car is in...too many variables to take into account and why would you really want to know?

IMHO I would remove as little paint as possible to get the job done to 95% corrected if it isn't a show car. Taking care of the paint from day 1 and not installing scratches is your best bet. And if you use proper washing, drying, and waxing techniques you really won't need to "buff your paint out" very often.

There are very many useful tools to tell you how thick the paint is, most notably, a paint thickness gauge. But if the pain thickness gauge doesn't tell you the thickness of every layer of paint you could be out of clear coat and buffing into the base layer. I actually believe I saw a video where Mike was taking paint thickness readings of separate parts of the car and writing them down on a notepad for records.

**keeotee** · 07-10-2010, 12:18 PM

Well, I appreciate the responses of course. And they are to some extent what I expected. I want to know, as you asked, whether a car could be safely buffed given the tool and product I mentioned, say three or four times over a ten year period, once a year, once every two years or whatever.

While I do try and minimize swirl marks and other defects, I have never found it possible to completely be free of them over time. But perhaps that is my fault.

I have seen extensive threads and posts concerning themselves with buffing tools and products, techniques and benefits of buffing. However, if a car can be buffed only once in its lifetime, perhaps the average person simply attempting to make the most of their daily driver would be better served to leave the swirl marks and not make any such purchases when it comes to buffer and related products.

Now if a car could be safely buffed several times, again with the buffer and products I mentioned, and if the average person just wanted to do the best they could to keep their car looking as good as they can for as long as they can, then the purchase of a buffer, pads and products could be justified.

So that is a little more of what I was after in asking my question. And for all I know, there are those out there that have driven a car for ten years or more, have buffed it with a PC and have done so once every year with no ill effect. Granted, there are as you say so many variables, so there would be no safe bet in that, but it would offer something - to me anyway.

Mike Phillips · 07-12-2010, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by keeotee

In short, even if only a very minute amount of paint is removed, in time a limit must be reached.

Does this question even have a definitive answer? Has it ever been quantified?

No definitive answer from any kind of study...

Remember the goal is to learn how to avoid putting swirls into paint after you restore a show car shine. Even if you do have to go back their should be fewer defects and hopefully they will be a lot more shallow.

If you look at the "Big Picture" you don't see a trend of posts on all the collective detailing discussion forums showing any kind of issue..

I actually posted this earlier today and have been posting it since vB has been around...

From this thread,

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...sing-ptgs.html

Originally Posted by Mike Phillips

If you're working on your car of course you want to be careful and if you're working on a customer's car then you for sure want to be careful.. and for what it's worth... hundreds of thousands of us have been machine buffing out our cars and customer's cars for decades and problems from removing too much material is the exception, not the norm.

Fact is most people struggle with removing swirls and scratches, especially when they first start out. Another way of saying this is,

Most people struggle with removing enough paint...

Major on the majors... minor on the minors...

p.s.

I recognize that forum nickname?

**keeotee** · 07-12-2010, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

No definitive answer from any kind of study...

Remember the goal is to learn how to avoid putting swirls into paint after you restore a show car shine. Even if you do have to go back their should be fewer defects and hopefully they will be a lot more shallow.

If you look at the "Big Picture" you don't see a trend of posts on all the collective detailing discussion forums showing any kind of issue..

I actually posted this earlier today and have been posting it since vB has been around...

From this thread,

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...sing-ptgs.html

Major on the majors... minor on the minors...

p.s.

I recognize that forum nickname?

Thank you Mike. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Appreciate the link too. I read through it.

I see what you mean in the very good points you've made. And yes, swirl prevention is something I strive for as we all do. But sometimes I think clear coat paint gets them just from a sideways glance!

As for the forum name, yes you do recognize it. I joined Detail City in early '04 and was on there all the time for almost two years. I use the same name there but I also have the picture of the dog (she's easy to remember). Then life hit the family and me kinda hard for several years and I'm just now getting back into detailing our vehicles. So I was following you since back then. Good memory as I've only made a couple posts or so on DC since getting back into detailing in June.

It's amazing how much you remember and sad how much you can forget in several years. But I'm finding that I enjoy it still as I did then.