Hard black paint... newbie nightmare!

**MisterB853** · 07-07-2016, 05:56 PM

Long time lurker and first time post. I have always found great info on here and need some advice.

Working on 01 black Impreza that has been repainted. It was heavily neglected and has never seen more than soap and water.

First round;
Wash, clay, iron x
GG6
5 in. backing plate
Menz FG400
LC flat orange pad cleaned on the fly with terry cloth
Test panel looked good in the garage and spent 12 hrs on entire car. Took it out in the sun and all swirls are gone, now the deeper scratches remain.

Second round;
Megs MF cutting pad and still can not get the deep scratches out after another 5 hrs! MF pads get cleaned with can of air and stiff nylon brush after every 2x2 section.
Now I have little dingleberries that are scattered all over the pads that do not come out. After soaking in dawn and scrubbing like mad they remain.

1) What is the next aggressive method to use? Wool pad?
2) Why are the MF pads clogging so fast and creating little nuggets of compound? I have two pads and do about two panels per pad.

Thanks for the help! I feel defeated

**rodneypierce** · 07-07-2016, 06:07 PM

are you sure that the scratches are indeed in the clear coat? And what you are seeing is not sanding scratches that are in fact UNDER the base and clear coat? Since it is a repaint, this is a very good possibility.

**ViperGuy21** · 07-07-2016, 06:10 PM

**custmsprty** · 07-07-2016, 07:13 PM

Sorry but......

But in all seriousness, I think you're going to have to live with what you have. I've never not been able to get perfection with FG400 in one step and this is with LC Flat orange pads and in a lot loss time than 12 hours.

It also sounds like you need to invest in some sort of swirl finder light for when you are in the garage since you couldn't see the defects after the test panel. I face the same struggles as I don't have great lighting in my garage so I rely on my inspection light.

The more aggressive you get the more clear you are grinding off the vehicle surface.

**ronkh57** · 07-07-2016, 07:36 PM

It also sounds like you are overloading the pads since they get "little nuggets of compound"

**MisterB853** · 07-09-2016, 12:29 PM

Pics will be up once photobucket stops being a nuisance

Originally Posted by rodneypierce

are you sure that the scratches are indeed in the clear coat? And what you are seeing is not sanding scratches that are in fact UNDER the base and clear coat? Since it is a repaint, this is a very good possibility.

I am able to get the RIDS out with 1500-->3000. If I wet sand all of them I will have smooth as glass spots all over the car.

Originally Posted by custmsprty

But in all seriousness, I think you're going to have to live with what you have. I've never not been able to get perfection with FG400 in one step and this is with LC Flat orange pads and in a lot loss time than 12 hours.

It also sounds like you need to invest in some sort of swirl finder light for when you are in the garage since you couldn't see the defects after the test panel. I face the same struggles as I don't have great lighting in my garage so I rely on my inspection light.

The more aggressive you get the more clear you are grinding off the vehicle surface.

A swirl finder light would be absolutely helpful. For now, I close garage and use a handheld shop light.

Originally Posted by ronkh57

It also sounds like you are overloading the pads since they get "little nuggets of compound"

I am priming to pad initially, then using 3 pea sized dots. Perhaps I am overworking the product and its melting/bonding to the MF pad.

After soaking the MF pads in Mirco-restor I was able to scrape off all the nuggets of compound.

Picked up a sheepskin wool pad locally as a last resort... First, I will try one more time with MF pad, shrink the area, use less product and do 4-5 section passes max.

Mike Phillips · 07-11-2016, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by MisterB853

Long time lurker and first time post. I have always found great info on here and need some advice.

Thanks for joining the forum to ask your questions and welcome to AutogeekOnline!

Originally Posted by MisterB853

Test panel looked good in the garage and spent 12 hrs on entire car.

Took it out in the sun and all swirls are gone, now the deeper scratches remain.

1) What is the next aggressive method to use? Wool pad?

Next aggressive method would be a wool pad on a rotary buffer or a FLEX 3401 and just get in there and get it over with.

Two comments...

1: If these are in fact RIDS then I I tell people for some scratches it's better to learn to live with them then to try to remove them 100% as you might end up buffing through the clearcoat and now you've turned a mole hill into a mountain. This is especially true for a daily driver.

2: Like mentioned, if the scratches you're seeing are from the prep work, that is they are under the clear then you cannot remove them. Here's how to test.

Place a strip of painter's tape across a scratch you want to remove and buff on just one side of the tape. Next inspect. If you see the scratch on the side you buffed disappearing then the scratch is in the top of the paint layer and you can possibly remove it if it's not too deep.

If there's no visible change or improvement the scratch is probably under the clear and don't try to remove it or you'll be repainting that panel.

Originally Posted by MisterB853

2) Why are the MF pads clogging so fast and creating little nuggets of compound? I have two pads and do about two panels per pad.

The nuggets are called pills or pilling.

Menzerna FG400 is known for doing this, it's sometimes a sign of overusing product. With MF pads there's no place for the product to penetrate into so it piles or pills up on the face of the pad and then gets spit out as you buff.

It don't bother me, I either pay more attention to how much product I'm using so I don't overuse product and/or simply wipe the pills off and move forward.

Originally Posted by MisterB853

Thanks for the help! I feel defeated

Keep us updated...

**MisterB853** · 07-11-2016, 11:38 AM

Pics for reference

50/50 after compounding, most of the swirls are gone but deeper scratches remain.

Rear decklid

Rear bumper

Dingleberries all over MF cutting pad

I have used one, two, three drops of FG400 on the MF pad and is still clogs up before one panel is completed. 5 section passes max, small working area, and clean with brush every pass.

More importantly the 3M automotive masking tape has severely damaged the trim around the windows, new post to follow!

**David Hayward** · 07-11-2016, 12:25 PM

I would say you are looking pretty good and had a great improvement. Going any harder may not really be worth it taking more clear off to fix scratches.

I've had that problem with fg400 quite a few times and it seemed to always come back to possibly too much product and a combination of too much heat also. I noticed it more with my 3401 on a hot day when the polisher was running a bit hot.

**MisterB853** · 07-11-2016, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by David Hayward

I would say you are looking pretty good and had a great improvement. Going any harder may not really be worth it taking more clear off to fix scratches.

I've had that problem with fg400 quite a few times and it seemed to always come back to possibly too much product and a combination of too much heat also. I noticed it more with my 3401 on a hot day when the polisher was running a bit hot.

I agree the improvement is great, I would like to be a bit less OCD! Trying to forget the location of the remaining scratches is difficult.