Wax build up..............

[Rivertender]

Good morning, Mike,

I am brand new here at the forum.

I've always been a ....more is better....kind of guy when it comes to putting wax on a car, however, I've never been able to get a straight answer from the car wax makers that I've called as to whether this is a valid concept. So, I am hoping you can give me some insight on the 5 following questions that have hounded me for a long time:

1. are more coats of wax doing any good, are they adding additional layers of protection? I like to do 2 coats of pure (non cleaning-like pure carnuba) wax, sometimes 3 if I have the time. I am starting with a light cleaner (polish) if needed, but the added coats are non cleaning, pure wax coats (layers).

2. is there actually a molecular, physical build up of wax or is the buffing procedure each time just removing the the additional layers of wax? On my added layers of wax, I buff them only by hand in hopes of leaving as much wax on the surface vis a vis a machine that might mechanically remove some or all of the additional wax coats

3. if there is a build up of protection with each layer, is the added benefit of each layer limitless? Do more and more coats of wax keep adding protection?


4. I wash my car with only clear water in the hope of eliminating any "cleansing action" by a cleaner/soap on my coats of wax. Am I right in thinking this?


5. Do the car -wash...and....wax- products replace a roughly equal amount of any of the wax they remove at each washing (if the wash does remove any wax at all - I'm only guessing that it does)?

Eager to get your thoughts, Mike, as I do the same extra coats of wax format for my 36' boat and, if I am wasting my time on the extra coats of wax.........going around that hull a few times with wax is a bunch of labor and fatigue to waste.

[01GreyStangGT]

Don't know what Mike will say, but another forum from England had a test where it was shown that beyond 2 coats of wax, there was no more added thickness to the paint.

[04accord]

Most people here will say more than 1 coat doesnt make a difference, 2 coats are only to ensure even coverage.

[Don M]

4. I wash my car with only clear water in the hope of eliminating any "cleansing action" by a cleaner/soap on my coats of wax. Am I right in thinking this?

I'll answer this one:

#4 NO! You need the LUBRICITY (slickness) of the soap to help PREVENT swirls and scratches as well as letting it loosen up the bond the dirt has on the surface of the car. A proper washing soap - formulated specifically for washing cars - will do minimal "damage" to your wax coat, but just remember ANY TIME you touch the paint, it wears away at the wax layer

[FUNX650]

I've always been a ....

more is better....kind of guy when it
comes to putting wax on a car,

however, I've never been able to get a
straight answer...whether this is a valid
concept.

So, I am hoping...(for)...some insight

1. are more coats of wax doing any good,
are they adding additional layers of protection?

I like to do 2 coats of pure (non cleaning-
like pure carnuba) wax, sometimes 3 if I
have the time. I am starting with a light
cleaner (polish) if needed, but the added
coats are non cleaning, pure wax coats
(layers).

2. is there actually a molecular, physical
build up of wax or is the buffing procedure
each time just removing the the additional
layers of wax?

On my added layers of wax, I buff them only
by hand in hopes of leaving as much wax on
the surface vis a vis a machine that might
mechanically remove some or all of the
additional wax coats

3. if there is a build up of protection with
each layer, is the added benefit of each
layer limitless? Do more and more coats
of wax keep adding protection?

^^^ ^^^

•With all of your:
"more is better"/layering-of-Wax
technique(s)...

-What, in your estimation, is your
Carbon-Footprint?
(Hopefully Al Gore will chime in)


Bob

[BillE]

As you keep adding more and more layers, all you end up doing is removing the lower layers. Think about the 'abrasion' of the removal process.

Most, if not all "wax" producers say, "Apply a thin layer..." If nothing else, thin properly applied LST is a whole lot easier to buff off that a big heavy coat of "wax."

Bill

[Kamakaz1961]

I hope I can answer this based on my experience. I am a waxaholic. I enjoy applying a carnauba wax on my ride. That being said and from 1st hand experience; I no longer apply many coats. I apply no more than 3 coats (1 sealant and 2 coats of wax) with the 3rd coat being applied about 2 weeks later.

My routine is this: Sealant 1st (coat 1) Wax on top (coat 2). About 2 weeks later or no more than 3 weeks 2nd coat of wax (3rd coat).

From my experience (others may have different results) the depth, gloss, wet look and brilliance actually diminish with more coats of wax applied. Again, from my experience. My guess is that the reflection from too much wax changes. I am no expert but I hope this gives you some input.

As for washing your car to see if it removes your wax...my guess probably, however, it is very insignificant. I would not rely on that but rely on your eyes and perception. Does it still bead and does it still sheet. If not, you will need to wax.

[Loach]

Don't know what Mike will say, but another forum from England had a test where it was shown that beyond 2 coats of wax, there was no more added thickness to the paint.

01GreyStangGT is right, this was an extremely valuable test. Using an ellipsometer, FinstP was able to measure individual thickness layers of waxes and sealants applied on top of silicon wafers. These wafers are incredibly flat and smooth, their thickness level is very consistent across the entire wafer unlike painted surfaces which can vary largely across the panel.

Here are the test results:

**
Collinite 915 Results

Wafer 1:
Thickness after first application: 22.7 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 18.8 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 15.3 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 22.1 nm

Wafer 2:
Thickness after first application: 20.6 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 23.8 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 22.5 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 17.0 nm

Wafer 3:
Thickness after first application: 15.9 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 25.0 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 24.9 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 20.1 nm

Wafer 4:
Thickness after first application: 16.9 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 27.8 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 26.7 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 21.5 nm
**

That's a wax layer at the nanometer level, you're talking about 0.02 microns thick. And one of the most interesting aspects of the test IMO was when he rebuffed the wafer afterwards with a microfiber towel:

**
Initial wax thickness = 20.1 nm
Light re-buff, remaining wax thickness = 14.9 nm
Light re-buff, remaining wax thickness = 7.3 nm
Light re-buff, remaining wax thickness = 5.8 nm
Light re-buff, remaining wax thickness = 5.8 nm
Light re-buff, remaining wax thickness = 5.6 nm. Looking at the clock, it's getting near to 6:30 pm so -
Heavy re-buff, remaining wax thickness = 5.6 nm!
**

So there are limits to how thick the total layer will go, and that limit appears to be at the 2nd application. But you can really see that impact on the layer with just a rebuffing. Now, in some cases I've noticed an improvement in the water behavior after the second application, but with many products I haven't seen this. In most cases the first coat is going to get the job done, but the old rule of two coats for coverage is a great choice and anything more than that and you're most likely not seeing any benefit. I would love to get my hands on some of this equipment to perform testing like FinstP did. What happens to the layer after washings? Are the wax oils/residuals left behind on the surface having a large impact on the first measurement of the layer? How about the measurements of mixing product layers like a wax or spray wax/sealant on top of a base layer sealant? And on and on. Unfortunately he didn't stay active on the forums.