Trouble with haze and tick marks after DA Polishing

[Bryan W]

Hi Mike,

I have always owned older cars and had no problem hand polishing them now and then. Just purchased a brand new VW TDI Sportwagen and decided to try a DA polisher to remove some light factory-installed swirls before sealing the paint. Unfortunately, I did not get the results I hoped for.

Method
My goal isn't to create a show car, but to keep it looking as good as new for many years.

My process was as follows:

1. Wash with Optimum Car Wash. Two bucket method with Grit Guards and microfiber mitt.
2. Clay with the Meguiars kit I already owned.
3. Polish with m205 using HexLogic white polishing pad.
4. Klasse AIO with a HexLogic blue pad, and by hand in the tight spots, using the microfiber applicator provided in the Klasse Kit.
5. Klasse SG with the foam applicator provided in the Klasse Kit.
6. Maintain with Optimum Car Wax

Somewhere along the way, I introduced some tick marks and a general haze to the surface. Don't get me wrong, the paint is shiny and glossy, but it doesn't have the clarity I expected it to after all that work. Now I'm regretting not just leaving it alone and waxing, as I think I made it worse than when I started.

In hindsight, I should have done a test spot clear through step 7, but instead, I only did a test spot with the m205. It looked pretty good at that point, but the sun wasn't fully out yet (I got an early start). I continued to do the rest of the car, though I skipped the m205 in areas that didn't seem to need it.

A few hours later, I pulled the car into the bright afternoon sun and was really disappointed with the results. Instead of beautiful clear glossy paint, I had a shiny but hazy mess.



Troubleshooting
My first thought was that the Klasse SG wasn't completely removed, but I don't think that's it. I tried some of the tricks for removing Klasse, including an IPA wipedown, but the haze continued.

After doing some more research through tons of helpful threads here, I think my issue looks a lot like the DA tic marks and marring photos you've posted. I wonder if that's from the DA process only, or if I was also too aggressive with my microfibers during the Klasse SG removal.

The next day, I went at it again, stepping up to an Orange HexLogic pad with the 205 to try to remove some of the haze. I then moved back to the white pad to try to bring out some gloss, but I'm still having the same issue with tic marks and a general haziness. I have tried all kinds of pressure and speed combinations, including heavy-pressure (but pad still spinning)/speed 5-6, light pressure/5-6, medium-pressure/3-4…you get the idea.

I still don't really seem to be getting a clear "polished" result. Is it just the hard as nails VW clear coat? Do I need a different product? Is my technique really that bad? I hand-rubbed a black Mazda 6 to a beautiful gloss using Meg's consumer-grade products. Shouldn't I be getting better results with these products and a DA?

I watched hours of your videos, drew on my previous experience of detailing my own vehicles, and read numerous posts on this forum, but I'm still stuck. Do I need to try a more aggressive product? Less aggressive product? Better MF towels? Help!

Photos
Here is the car in indirect sunlight. Not bad!


But here is a closeup in the sun.


Here's another one from the next day (after my Round 2 attempt)


Notice the dullness in the reflections?


Thanks again. Hoping I can do better than this! I'm really discouraged right now.

[BobbyG]

Hey Bryan,

I'm sorry I can't really tell from the photos but what it sounds like is you applied too much Klasse High Gloss Sealant. Your explanation sounds eerily familiar to something I went through when I first started using it.

If the sealant is applied to heavy it creates one heck of a mess and the best way to remove it with mineral spirits, "I think"..

I believe Scott, Killerwheels" posted a method some time ago and he simply sprayed it on lightly much like a spray wax......and this method works very well!!

[Bryan W]

I'm sorry I can't really tell from the photos but what it sounds like is you applied too much Klasse High Gloss Sealant. Your explanation sounds eerily familiar to something I went through when I first started using it.

Thanks Bobby. That would be GREAT news if that's all it was.

I do see some tick marks in addition to the general hazing, so I think I'll need to try polishing again after stripping the Klasse. That brings up a couple more questions:

Do you think the m205 is aggressive enough for the VW's hard clear coat, or will I need to order something stronger?

Could my microfibers be causing the marring and tick marks?

[David Hayward]

From my personal experience 205 on a newer vw isn't enough to really correct anything. I had to step to microfiber pads just to get light swirls out of my 2011 CC and my buddies 2014 gli. The 205 would be fine as a final polish just to get the most gloss you can out of the finish though. I've had great results with either megs d300 or menzerna fg400 or pf2500 as a start for my first step in vw to try removing defects.


Also is it possible some tick marks were there and swirls were hiding them? Did you happen to have any contamination in your pads or towels?

Not sure how much more you would like to spend on products and equipment, but the megs mf kit would be a good start for you I think with this car.

[David Hayward]

Also double check your clay to make sure its also clean and free of any small particles that could have damaged the finish. It's hard to see anything in your pictures though so I can't give much advice on the marks.

[BobbyG]

I would again try using Meguiar's M205 and a white foam pad. Do only a small section with 3 to 4 sectional passes. Give the product and pad combination time to work by slowing down your arm speed. Once complete carefully wipe with a clean microfiber towel and mineral spirits and evaluate.

Any aggressive rubbing to remove a product can potentially damage the finish even with the softest of towels.

If your finish looks like this I don't feel it's coming from a microfiber towel






Two over the counter products that are available just about everywhere from a company that wrote another book on detailing is Meguiar's...

Meguiar's Ultimate Compound

Meguiar's Ultimate Polish

[Bryan W]

Thanks Trutech! Some helpful stuff in your posts.

From my personal experience 205 on a newer vw isn't enough to really correct anything. I had to step to microfiber pads just to get light swirls out of my 2011 CC and my buddies 2014 gli. The 205 would be fine as a final polish just to get the most gloss you can out of the finish though. I've had great results with either megs d300 or menzerna fg400 or pf2500 as a start for my first step in vw to try removing defects.

Ok that's good to know. At least I know I wasn't doing something wrong with my technique. Of the three products you recommended, is there one that really stands out? I see that the megs is a bit cheaper, but I'm okay paying more if the results have been better for you

Also is it possible some tick marks were there and swirls were hiding them? Did you happen to have any contamination in your pads or towels?

It's possible, but I've had the car less than 3 weeks. I think the towels are the most likely culprit (my pads were brand new but the towels are a few years old). Time for some new towels?

Also double check your clay to make sure its also clean and free of any small particles that could have damaged the finish.

The clay was from a brand-new unopened package, so I don't think that was it.

Not sure how much more you would like to spend on products and equipment, but the megs mf kit would be a good start for you I think with this car.

I don't want to spend a fortune, but if the products are a good investment and will last, then I'm happy to get them.

[Bryan W]

I would again try using Meguiar's M205 and a white foam pad. Do only a small section with 3 to 4 sectional passes. Give the product and pad combination time to work by slowing down your arm speed. Once complete carefully wipe with a clean microfiber towel and mineral spirits and evaluate.

Thanks Bobby. I will try that again tomorrow evening and let you know how it goes. If I can get the car in full sun, I'll take a before and after photo of the new test spot.

Any aggressive rubbing to remove a product can potentially damage the finish even with the softest of towels.

If your finish looks like this I don't feel it's coming from a microfiber towel

Some of them are more patterned like the photos you provided, but a few are more random. Based on your responses and Trutech's, I'm thinking the towels might be the problem with the random marks. Maybe the others are just a matter of not polishing long enough (I did about 6 s-l-o-w passes, but I can try some more).

[allenk4]

It's not the towels, no matter what brand or condition.

If you polished the paint and therefore removed the defects..your towel marks will be in the direction you moved them across the surface of the paint, not in a random pattern.

You would really have to intentionally try to inflict the type of damage in Bobby's picture.

IMO the defects have been there all along

+1 for the Meguiar's MF system. The D300 is a defect killer and finishes LSP ready in some cases. Make sure you properly prime the pad and clean often for maximum cut and minimum haze.

[Bryan W]

If you polished the paint and therefore removed the defects..your towel marks will be in the direction you moved them across the surface of the paint, not in a random pattern.

IMO the defects have been there all along

Well I'm sorta glad to know I didn't cause the problems, but I also wonder what the heck the dealer did with a 150-mile car to instill that much marring into the paint!

I know they "detailed" the car before we bought it, but I didn't think it looked THAT bad. Is it possible they used a filler wax that caused me to not notice the more severe marring until after I washed, clayed, and polished it?

+1 for the Meguiar's MF system. The D300 is a defect killer and finishes LSP ready in some cases. Make sure you properly prime the pad and clean often for maximum cut and minimum haze.

Very interesting. I hadn't looked at that system when choosing products for a new car because I thought they were geared toward older neglected finishes, not brand new paint. But it sounds like the VW paint needs something that aggressive.

My other option would be to try one of the Menzerna polishes with my foam pads, which would be cheaper now, but possibly more expensive in the long run. Thoughts?