First Polisher help

[nickyc]

Hi folks, I am about to purchase a new polisher and it will be my first one, I have a voucher for a detailing company here in the UK. My dilemma is what to purchase ? I will only be doing my own 2 cars and they would need a 1 step polish. I have been told that I might be better off getting a forced rotation polisher for speed rather than a DA, but I am non the wiser. Could I have some advice on what you recommend, I'm not too bad at learning so the forced rotation learning curve wont scare me ( I dont think), but I will also need to learn the DA too anyway. My choices at a glance would be the Rupes LHR 15 Mk3, Rupes Mille or the new Flex XCE 10-8 125. Also I know Rupes have specific pads for their machines, do Flex have specific ones for the XCE or are there better options out there ?

Thanks in advance.

Nick

 

[Aaryn NZ]

First off - Welcome to Autogeek Online nickyc. rops:


I’m not entirely sure what the Flex XCE 10-8 125 is but if it is in fact the new forced rotation offering from Flex, then in my opinion - I’d be dropping my cash on that in a heartbeat, & if you can get the cordless version - I would be happy dancing all the way to the shop!!! :buffing:

Other than that my second choice would be the Flex 3401 vrg (what the XCE May be replacing) or if you want a non forced rotation DA then the XFE 7-15 from Flex is a stunning machine too, which if you are only needing to do AIO style work on your own cars - this may be ideal.

In terms of pads, & again - this is MY opinion - pair the Flex with Lake Country Manufacturing Pads & you’re cruising to shiny street. rops:


Aaryn NZ. :dblthumb2:


: EDIT - Apologies for my lack of knowledge but I see the NEW forced rotation Flex is indeed the XCE! Awh man! How cool! Are they for sale in the UK now??? That’d be my pick hands down. :buffing:

 

[nickyc]

Thanks Aaryn, they are released in Europe already, about to drop in the UK soon. What are your thoughts on Rupes in comparison and their offerings

 

[Aaryn NZ]

No problems mate. :xyxthumbs:

So, I have a few RUPES tools too, a Mini, a 21, a Mille, a RULH22EN & a LH18ENS are all part of the arsenal at the shop. They’re all great tools for sure but I just find the Flex tools are just that much more refined, kinda like Italian cars v German cars (I feel my comments aren’t going to please everyone - my opinion folks) The Italians build with passion, with little regard to reliability, whereas the Germans are more about precision precision precision.

I haven’t had an issue with a Flex tool as far as reliability goes, in fact I have a 3401 that is over eight years old & has buffed out 100’s of vehicles & has had brushes replaced 3x & the cord once.

RUPES tools I have used since I started detailing for money twenty five years ago & I’ve had a mixed bag to be honest. I would’ve owned six RUL22EN Rotary polishers (or their equivalent model) & this latest one I have has been the most reliable to date. Give it, it doesn’t see the amount of work that some of the previously owned ones did.

The Mini - faultless.

The 21 - great too but I just don’t love it, I am a forced rotation kinda guy though.

The Mille - a nice machine too but not super comfy in hand. The “handle” is a touch high for me & it feels way nicer gripping the head/housing but again, it just doesn’t feel as refined or as smooth as the Flex 3401 vrg.

The LH18ENS - nice little Rotary polisher. Been updated now to the LH19E & reports are that it’s better but for me the Flex PE-14 or the PE-150 is my favourite polisher ever. These are just heaven in hand.


I hope I have somewhat helped a bit. I know it sounds as if I am biased towards Flex or a “fan boy” & I’ll run with that. I’m in the business of detailing vehicles for money & I need tools that are going to do the work well, reliably & feel good doing it & Flex pulls through for me every time.

And as soon as the XCE (corded & cordless) are available down here - I’ll be handing over my hard earned cash without hesitation. :buffing:


Aaryn NZ. :dblthumb2:

 

[nickyc]

Aaryn, you are a star, and thank you for your advice, it is much appreciated and I think I will go the Flex route. It was my first gut feel and I suppose I should stick with that.

Kind regards,

Nick

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hi folks, I am about to purchase a new polisher and it will be my first one, I have a voucher for a detailing company here in the UK. My dilemma is what to purchase ?

I will only be doing my own 2 cars and they would need a 1 step polish.

When you say one-step polish? Do you mean one-step AIO? That is a product that,

Compounds
Polishes
AND SEALS the paint in one step?

Is so that's an AIO or cleaner/wax, not a "polish".

I have been told that I might be better off getting a forced rotation polisher for speed rather than a DA, but I am non the wiser.

A rotary buffer will always impart holograms, even if you cannot see them they will be there. You received bad advice. As an enthusiast or hobbyist, do yourself a favor and get ANY brand of orbital that works.

Besides causing holograms, the physical work of running a rotary buffer over an entire car requires a lot more muscle and energy than any DA.




Below I have used BLUE text to describe each of the tools you have listed.

Could I have some advice on what you recommend, I'm not too bad at learning so the forced rotation learning curve wont scare me ( I dont think), but I will also need to learn the DA too anyway.

My choices at a glance would be the

Rupes LHR 15 Mk3 - FREE SPINNING Random Orbital
Rupes Mille - GEAR-DRIVEN 5mm fixed orbit
or the new Flex XCE 10-8 125 - GEAR-DRIVEN 8mm fixed orbit

I think all of the above would be a great choice. I think the new Mark III RUPES polishers are really nice versions of the Legacy and Mark II. Totally worth the extra money if a person wants a free spinning orbital.

If a person wants pure grunt horsepower for max speed when buffing out a car no matter what the shape of the body panel, (curves), then the gear-driven options would be the way to go.

Out of the gear-driven options, I would go with the BEAST. The tool you listed, the XCE 10-8 125 is the cordless gear-driven version of the original FLEX 3401 aka the BEAST.

I've used both the 5mm and the 8mm concepts of a gear-driven orbital polisher and I'll just tell you my opinion, the 8mm FLEX is faster and easier to use than any brand of 5mm gear-driven tool. You'll find others on this forum and other social media touch points that have the opposite opinion as mine and I'm okay with that. Here's what I know, when I have a car to buff out and I want to get it done fast and keep my results pro grade, I grab 8mm gear-driven, not 5mm gear driven.


Here's the FLEX page for the tool you listed,

XCE 10-8 125 - Random orbital polisher with positive-action drive

Also I know Rupes have specific pads for their machines, do Flex have specific ones for the XCE or are there better options out there ?

Thanks in advance.

Nick

RUPES is a SYSTEM - I always show it as a system and recommend ANYONE choosing to go with a RUPES polisher to also budget for the matching pads and products. USE IT AS INTENDED and become and EXPERT with their SYSTEM.


Then, after you are an expert with their system, then start experimenting with other pads and products. If non-RUPES pads and products work for you then go with it. If non-RUPES pads and products are NOT working for you at least you have the pads and products that do work.


Read this article - I show this in all my classes too....

The Air Test - Using NON RUPES pads on RUPES Polishers by Mike Phillips


The Air Test

In this picture, this RUPES BigFoot 21 is running on the 6.0 speed setting and is vibration free.

I came up with a simple test ANYONE can do to test if a non-RUPES buffing pad is compatable with a RUPES polisher.

The RUPES engineers designed their pads specific to the RUPES tools and backing plates for the intended purpose of reducing and eliminating vibration. This means the size, shape, thickness and weight of the pads are such that when attached to the matching RUPES backing plate and RUPES tool there is zero or very little vibration.


The Air Test

First - Hold a RUPES polisher in the air without a foam buffing pad attached to the backing plate in the [ON] position on speed 6. You will feel the tool vibrating.

Second - Attach the correct size RUPES pad for the backing plate and matching RUPES tool and repeat the above. That is hold the tool in the air in the [ON] position on speed 6. You will feel no vibration and a very smooth operating tool.​

Now after doing the above you know what vibration feels like with no pad and what zero vibration feels like with the RUPES engineered pad.



Testing non-RUPES pads for vibration

To test a non-RUPES pad for vibration and compatability, repeat the test with the pad you're thinking of using and see if there is any vibration.

• If no vibration, your choice, use or don't use the pad.

• If you feel vibration you will know it's the pad, not the tool.

Engineered for no vibration

I've done my research and real world testing and what I've experienced is that what RUPES states is true and that is they engineered their pads, backing plates and tools to work together to eliminate vibration.


It doesn't matter to me what pad anyone uses on any tool I just wanted to point out that when RUPES states their pads, backing plates and tools are engineered to work together to eliminate vibration they mean it.


I've always been what I call a systems guy that is given the choice I prefer to use a system approach versus mixing and matching products, pads and tools from multiple brands.

I'm not saying mixing and matching doesn't work but I think you hedge your bet when you stay inside a system designed by the same company. I also know it's the nature of the beast for people to want to experiement and use pads other non-RUPES pads or pads they already own on their RUPES polishers. The Air Test will tell you real fast if a pad is compatible.




On Autogeek.com


RUPES Color Matched 7" Foam Buffing Pads

RUPES Color Matched 6" Foam Buffing Pads

RUPES Color Matched 4" Foam Buffing Pads

 

[nickyc]

Hi Mike, I didn't mean an AIO, sorry. I meant the paint isn't that bad so will just likely only need a one step polish like a finishing polishing to get rid of light swirls as apposed to having to do a 2 or 3 stage polish. I hope I've explained that right. Also I meant Gear driven rather than forced rotation (Sorry about that). Thank you for clearing that up and giving me some great tips and advice, I really do appreciate it. I think I am leaning towards the Flex, but will wait until the XCE lands in the UK as it is so close to coming out. I think I may go for the corded version, as I'm not sure I would benefit from the cordless that much as I will just be doing my cars in the garage.
Mike, would you recommend a particular pad for the gear driven Flex ? I see Lake Country Force Hybrid's talked about often.

Thanks again,

Nick

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hi Mike, I didn't mean an AIO, sorry. I meant the paint isn't that bad so will just likely only need a one step polish like a finishing polishing to get rid of light swirls as apposed to having to do a 2 or 3 stage polish. I hope I've explained that right.

Completely makes sense. I just wanted to make sure I was reading your correctly.

Using a rotary polisher with an AIO or one-step will leave your cars looking all swirled out. If you were to use a rotary with a fine cut polish and THEN seal with a wax, sealant or coating, these can sometimes mask the holograms.


I'd strongly recommend going with any good orbital over only a rotary. I have my original rotary here in my office that I purchased in 1987 - I'm VERY familiar with the rotary buffer. Thus my recommendation.

 

[nickyc]

Thanks Mike, so would the Flex XCE 10-8 125 be a good purchase ? I definitely wouldn't get a rotary at this stage.

 

[Paul A.]

I certainly can't disagree with either Aaryn or Mike. I would NOT get a rotary as my first machine. I, like Aaryn, am a huge Flex fan.

I willingly yield the floor to those who prefer the Rupes machines. I read any and all posts that talk about them. They are absolutely top notch machines however having used both my personal preference is Flex.

If budget is a constraint I would get a Griot's Garage 6" machine.

 

[nickyc]

Thanks all, I may have caused a bit of confusion originally and apologise for that. I was not ever considering a Rotary, I meant an orbital of some sort, either a gear driven ( Mille or VRG) or a free spinning one like the Rupes LHR 15. I have decided on the Flex new version of the gear driven orbital which is due to be released in the UK soon. On a slightly different note are there certain things in particular with the Flex machines that you prefer over the Rupes machines ?

Apologies again for the slight confusion.

Nick

 

[Paul A.]

My preference of the Flex is based on the combination of gear driven, forced rotation with an orbital throw. No holograms but substantial and aggressive cut when I need it for compounding.

My time spent with a Rupes machine included periods of stalling out the machine on curved sections here and there. I've never experienced that with my Flex due to its strength. I clearly admit my time with the Rupes was limited and my technique was not very refined when I tried it. I am sure I would overcome that with more use.