Meguiar's Ultimate Polish VS M07 #7 Show Car Glaze. Please Help!

[scoobybpc]

Hi everyone, first post here!

I have a 1990 Miata with single stage paint tainted with oxidization, I've been able to remove the oxidization in the past but unfortunately it comes back fairly quickly. I tried removing it again and attempted to seal it with Klasse sealant, but after a couple months the fade was back!

I've read the awesome tutorial by Mike Phillips on using #7 polish to feed oils back into the paint, I think this is my main issue with why it keeps fading back.

I'm in Canada and have been struggling to find Meguiar's #7 polish, but I called up a local NAPA autoparts store and they assured me they could get it once I supplied them with the sku number from the Meguiars website.
We have a long weekend here in Canada and I was excited to pick up my polish from Napa today so I can finally get to work on my single stage paint Miata! Unfortunately when the guy came out with the bottle, right away I noticed it was black and not beige. He handed me Meguiars "Utlimate Polish".

I gave him the sku number again and he said that the Ultimate Polish is what they send when they order the sku for M07. While I frantically tried googling the differences between Ultimate Polish and #7, the Napa employee nicely called Meguiars directly to try and clear things up. The Meguiars representative told Napa that "its the same" and that "a polish is a polish" - which right away set off some red flags. I told them it was important that I had the right one and they assured me it was.

Now that I've taken a closer look, I noticed the Ultimate Polish says to do a small patch at a time, and in bold caps says "DO NOT LET THE POLISH DRY"... Which is the opposite of the 12-24 marinate that Mike Phillips tutorial calls for.

I'm pretty frustrated and worried that I just wasted my money on something totally different.. Can someone advise the differences and if I can infact leave it on like in Mike Phillips epic tutorial?

Tutorial found here:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...ge-paints.html

[Mike Phillips]

I gave him the sku number again and he said that the Ultimate Polish is what they send when they order the sku for M07.

While I frantically tried googling the differences between Ultimate Polish and #7, the Napa employee nicely called Meguiars directly to try and clear things up.

The Meguiars representative told Napa that "its the same" and that "a polish is a polish" - which right away set off some red flags.

That's not the answer I would have provided and they are not the same. Sometimes a general fluff answer is what you get because most people never get this deep and even more people never get as deep as I do into the art of polishing paint.

Now that I've taken a closer look, I noticed the Ultimate Polish says to do a small patch at a time, and in bold caps says "DO NOT LET THE POLISH DRY"...

Which is the opposite of the 12-24 marinate that Mike Phillips tutorial calls for.

They are right about NOT letting the product dry. You don't let either product dry.

That's where a forum and the ability to talk to someone that knows the deeper things can be real handy.

First, in the NORMAL world, you simply don't let compounds and polishes dry. There's NO BENEFIT to letting them dry and it just makes removal difficult.

I have an article on this on MOL.

Second, MOST people are working on clearcoats and clearcoats don't really ABSORB unlike single stage paints so from a "Customer Care" point of view you tell people its the same stuff and after application remove it don't let it dry.

But most people have NEVER worked on single stage paint and most people have never read my article or read the text surrounding these two pictures. (have you?)

This is key...
Saturation Application --> The First Application
This is a mostly unknown technique and that is to let the first application penetrate and soak into the paint for up to 24 hours before wiping the product off. The idea being to really apply the product wet and work it in really well and the walk away.

The idea is to allow the heavy concentration of oils to penetrate and seep into the paint for maximum saturation before removing the product and continuing with the process. In this case I finished applying the first application of #7 around 9:00 pm and then left the #7 to soak in until the next day. I started wiping the product off then next morning right about 10:00am.

Some will argue if this works or not but my experience is that with a porous single stage paint it does in fact help. One thing for sure it can't hurt.

Paper Test for Capillary Action
If you place a few drops of #7 onto a piece of paper and then monitor it over a few days you will see the oils in the #7 migrate or seep away from the actual drop of product. It does this through capillary action and the same thing can work to your car's paints' advantage if it's a single stage lacquer or enamel paint.

I placed a few drops about the size of a nickel on a piece of standard printer paper around 3:00pm.



The next day I took these pictures at approximately 10:00am, (19 hours later), note how the oils in the drops of #7 have migrated outward via capillary action.



Feeder Oils penetrate or feed the paint
This same effect can take place in a single stage paint but not only will the oils travel horizontally, they will also travel vertically, that they will penetrate downward "into" your car's paint and this is where the term feeder oils comes from as the oils penetrate into or feed the paint. The result is they will condition the paint restoring some level of workability as compared to just working on old dry paint, and they will also bring out the full richness of color, something that will showcase the beauty of your car's paint.

So people that say apply Ultimate Polish and then wipe it off are correct when discussion modern clearcoat paints.


If you're working on antiqueoxidizeded, chalky single state paint that's IMPORTANT to you then you use #7 and follow any of the directions I share in any of my #7 articles.


All Mike Phillips #7 Show Car Glaze Articles in one place



Number 7 is a semi-drying oil so it doesn't really dry but it does skin over like pudding. That is unless you apply it and let it dry for a ridiculous amount of time.


Because your Miata has a moderurethanean single stage paint my guess is the Ultimate Polish will work find just don't let it dry.

Can't get deeper as I'm trying to process pictures which is very time consuming and why most people don't do it.



Pictures from Autogeek's Competition Ready Roadshow Detailing Class at Waxstock in England!

[Mike Phillips]

For everyone that ever reads this into the future....

If someone tries to tell you how to restore antique single stage paint that's important to you....


1: Ask them where their article is on this topic?

2: Ask them to show you all the cars with antique single stage paint that they've restored and also documented the before, during and after pictures are.



If they can't do either of these two things keep looking for the right answers.

[Mike Phillips]

Also since this was your FIRST post to our forum...


Welcome to AutogeekOnline!


Be sure to take GREAT before pictures as after pictures are more or less worthless without the before pictures.

[scoobybpc]

That's not the answer I would have provided and they are not the same. Sometimes a general fluff answer is what you get because most people never get this deep and even more people never get as deep as I do into the art of polishing paint.




They are right about NOT letting the product dry. You don't let either product dry.

That's where a forum and the ability to talk to someone that knows the deeper things can be real handy.

First, in the NORMAL world, you simply don't let compounds and polishes dry. There's NO BENEFIT to letting them dry and it just makes removal difficult.

I have an article on this on MOL.

Second, MOST people are working on clearcoats and clearcoats don't really ABSORB unlike single stage paints so from a "Customer Care" point of view you tell people its the same stuff and after application remove it don't let it dry.

But most people have NEVER worked on single stage paint and most people have never read my article or read the text surrounding these two pictures. (have you?)






So people that say apply Ultimate Polish and then wipe it off are correct when discussion modern clearcoat paints.


If you're working on antiqueoxidizeded, chalky single state paint that's IMPORTANT to you then you use #7 and follow any of the directions I share in any of my #7 articles.


All Mike Phillips #7 Show Car Glaze Articles in one place



Number 7 is a semi-drying oil so it doesn't really dry but it does skin over like pudding. That is unless you apply it and let it dry for a ridiculous amount of time.


Because your Miata has a moderurethanean single stage paint my guess is the Ultimate Polish will work find just don't let it dry.

Can't get deeper as I'm trying to process pictures which is very time consuming and why most people don't do it.



Pictures from Autogeek's Competition Ready Roadshow Detailing Class at Waxstock in England!

Hi Mike,

Thank you so much for the quick reply!

I did read your article (several times actually) and other success stories which referred to your article which is why I was on the hunt for #7.

Now that I've got the Ultimate Polish, would you suggest I could use a similar method to your #7 article (putting the "Ultimate Polish" on wet or heavy and leaving it for 12 hours)?

I guess my question is, even though these products are not the same, will the Ultimate Polish still provide oils to my paint like #7 if I put it on wet/heavy and leave it on for several hours? Or would Ultimate Polish just dry and become difficult to remove? I just called Meguiars here in Canada and they said that they do not import #7 for the Canadian market, so I may be stuck. And now I have a new bottle of Ultimate Polish that I don't know what to do with!

Looking forward to learning from this forum and getting my Miata Red back to Red (and not pink!)

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Mike,

Thank you so much for the quick reply!

I did read your article (several times actually) and other success stories which referred to your article which is why I was on the hunt for #7.

Now that I've got the Ultimate Polish, would you suggest I could use a similar method to your #7 article (putting the "Ultimate Polish" on wet or heavy and leaving it for 12 hours)?

Yes as long as the car is not outside in warm or hot temperatures. Try to do this in your garage.

I guess my question is, even though these products are not the same, will the Ultimate Polish still provide oils to my paint like #7 if I put it on wet/heavy and leave it on for several hours?

My guess is "yes" even though I've never done it with this product.

If you want to be uber cautious then simply use the technique to one small section of paint and see what happens.

Or would Ultimate Polish just dry and become difficult to remove?

See my answers above. You could also pour some product out and spread it around a something like a glass plate and then let it alone over night and then inspect to see if it dries and if it does how much it dries. It's possible it's nothing like #7 - but again, I've never tried this with UP.

I just called Meguiars here in Canada and they said that they do not import #7 for the Canadian market, so I may be stuck. And now I have a new bottle of Ultimate Polish that I don't know what to do with!

Looking forward to learning from this forum and getting my Miata Red back to Red (and not pink!)

Try the UP and worse comes to worse get it from Autogeek or check with Chris over eshine.ca

[scoobybpc]

Hi again!
So I put several hours into my Miata over the weekend and am impressed with the results.
That said, I've managed to bring the paint back in the past, only to have it fade again after about a month or so. This can be very discouraging to put that much work into it and then have it fade right back within a short time.

So this time, I used Mike's methods of letting the car "soak", I also finished the car with 2 coats of Klasse Sealant Glaze, and then one coat of carnuba liquid wax. I'm really hoping that this was enough to seal in my work! If you think theres more I should be doing to seal it up, please let me know. I plan on layering on another coat of wax the next time I wash it.

On to the pictures!
This is what I'm working with:
https://goo.gl/photos/CHrZQi5MVxHGR3cVA
https://goo.gl/photos/GtgtV342hn7bmPYf6

As you can see, its super super oxidized and very dull. No reflections at all.
I applied a test spot of the ultimate polish for an hour just to see what it did:
https://goo.gl/photos/q6D4RethEsQx5yL39
The result was promising:
https://goo.gl/photos/dRn4CDpa9hJxYgbu6


So first off, I used an abrasive polish to remove all of the oxidization:
https://goo.gl/photos/ZG4cNkeXnpsGxnGB8
As you can see, this made a huge difference. But this is what I did last year, and that resulted in it fading again within a month.

So now onto the Ultimate Polish soak:
https://goo.gl/photos/cM7LWDLKns7TPtaF9
I left this on for 16 hours. Removal wasnt too hard but took some muscle. I also used a little quick detailer to help with some of the harder removal spots. The result of the polish soak were impressive:
https://goo.gl/photos/MmbTgH1Jove23vCG7

Now it was time to seal it all in so I hopefully don't have to do this again!!
After 2 coats of Klasse sealant and a coat of wax it was looking really deep and the red really popped!
https://goo.gl/photos/vkRa4QUdfGtGRSZC9
https://goo.gl/photos/AeGHzryRiiaNZcM69

Thank you again Mike for your article and your advice. Once again, I'm really just hoping for once the paint will maintain this shine and not just fade back to where it was. I'm going to wax it again soon to try and protect it further.

[57BORNTORUN]

Funny Mike, you answered the same question for me in your office last week on the "drying" of Meg`s #7..
"Number 7 is a semi-drying oil so it doesn't really dry but it does skin over like pudding. That is unless you apply it and let it dry for a ridiculous amount of time."
The answer was helpful for some of the old school guys on another car related site.Thanks.

[AC in OC]

Hi again!
So I put several hours into my Miata over the weekend and am impressed with the results.
That said, I've managed to bring the paint back in the past, only to have it fade again after about a month or so. This can be very discouraging to put that much work into it and then have it fade right back within a short time.

So this time, I used Mike's methods of letting the car "soak", I also finished the car with 2 coats of Klasse Sealant Glaze, and then one coat of carnuba liquid wax. I'm really hoping that this was enough to seal in my work! If you think theres more I should be doing to seal it up, please let me know. I plan on layering on another coat of wax the next time I wash it.

On to the pictures!
This is what I'm working with:
https://goo.gl/photos/CHrZQi5MVxHGR3cVA
https://goo.gl/photos/GtgtV342hn7bmPYf6

As you can see, its super super oxidized and very dull. No reflections at all.
I applied a test spot of the ultimate polish for an hour just to see what it did:
https://goo.gl/photos/q6D4RethEsQx5yL39
The result was promising:
https://goo.gl/photos/dRn4CDpa9hJxYgbu6


So first off, I used an abrasive polish to remove all of the oxidization:
https://goo.gl/photos/ZG4cNkeXnpsGxnGB8
As you can see, this made a huge difference. But this is what I did last year, and that resulted in it fading again within a month.

So now onto the Ultimate Polish soak:
https://goo.gl/photos/cM7LWDLKns7TPtaF9
I left this on for 16 hours. Removal wasnt too hard but took some muscle. I also used a little quick detailer to help with some of the harder removal spots. The result of the polish soak were impressive:
https://goo.gl/photos/MmbTgH1Jove23vCG7

Now it was time to seal it all in so I hopefully don't have to do this again!!
After 2 coats of Klasse sealant and a coat of wax it was looking really deep and the red really popped!
https://goo.gl/photos/vkRa4QUdfGtGRSZC9
https://goo.gl/photos/AeGHzryRiiaNZcM69

Thank you again Mike for your article and your advice. Once again, I'm really just hoping for once the paint will maintain this shine and not just fade back to where it was. I'm going to wax it again soon to try and protect it further.

Great work! Good thing it was a small car or your arms would have fallen off.