The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

[Mike Phillips]

Mike,

I read in one of your other threads that you believed Swirl-X was going to be discontinued. Is that still the case?

I'm not sure if SwirlX has officially been discontinued or not, just haven't heard but also haven't asked. I think it's to be replaced by Ultimate Polish. I was just kind of sad because the label on SwirlX includes a car I personally polished and it's kind of cool to have products on the market with cars I've actually worked on...


See the pictures in this article..

RIDS and Feathersanding - A Highly Specialized Technique by Mike Phillips


This is the car, and I'm the guy that taped it off down the middle and buffed it out for the 2002 Bimmerfest...

Mike,

Also, the new Water Spot Remover has micro abrasives in it, where would this fall in the aggressiveness chart? Thanks for the help!

I'm not sure as I have not used the product yet nor spoken with anyone from Meguiar's about it. Jason Rose, David Pedre and Mike Stoops will all be here in a few days and I'll ask them.

My guess is the new water spot remove is VERY LIGHT it it's abrading ability since it can be used by hand and is targeted at "Joe Consumer" so it has to be pretty safe.


What are you working on?


And welcome to AutogeekOnline since this is your first post...

[sullivette]

Mike,

Thanks for the welcome. I have some water spots from a sprinkler in a restaurant parking lot (happened at night and I didnt realize some places use such hard water in their sprinklers!). I have tried vinegar, Zaino Z-18 clay bar, and Z-AIO; all of which didnt help at all. Then I tried Swirl-X on a small spot, and it removed the water spots completely but if you looked close in direct sunlight, you can see where I used it.

So if I can find something a little less abrasive and still get the job done, that would be awesome. I even thought about using the medium or aggresive Meguiars clay but I wasnt sure if that would show up more or less than the Swirl-X. Thanks again!

[Mike Phillips]

Mike,

Thanks for the welcome. I have some water spots from a sprinkler in a restaurant parking lot (happened at night and I didnt realize some places use such hard water in their sprinklers!). I have tried vinegar, Zaino Z-18 clay bar, and Z-AIO; all of which didnt help at all. Then I tried Swirl-X on a small spot, and it removed the water spots completely but if you looked close in direct sunlight, you can see where I used it.

So if I can find something a little less abrasive and still get the job done, that would be awesome. I even thought about using the medium or aggressive Meguiars clay but I wasn't sure if that would show up more or less than the Swirl-X. Thanks again!

Water spots are either topical or sub-surface and usually a little bit of both when the source is city water. You'll get what I call an "Imprint Ring" which is where the paint is actually etched a little where the perimeter of the water drop dried.


You can give the new Water Spot Remover a try, it should work just fine.


Also see my article here, it has pictures of water spot imprint rings...


How To Remove Sprinkler Water Spots

[Mike Phillips]

Also, lots of people always telling others to use vinegar and it's not the fix-all product for removing water spots everyone thinks it is and your experience demonstrated...

I have an article on this too...


Using Vinegar to remove water spots

[sullivette]

Mike,

Have you had a chance to ask Jason Rose, David Pedre or Mike Stoops about where the water spot remover falls in the aggressiveness order? One other question, do you know if Meguiar's aggressive red clay is more aggressive than Swirl-x?

Thanks again Mike!

[sullivette]

Mike,

Bumping this one just in case it slipped your mind. Any response on where it falls in the aggresiveness chart? Also, do you happen to know if Swirl-X or Meguiar's red clay is more aggressive? Thank you.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike,

Have you had a chance to ask Jason Rose, David Pedre or Mike Stoops about where the water spot remover falls in the aggressiveness order? One other question, do you know if Meguiar's aggressive red clay is more aggressive than Swirl-x?

Thanks again Mike!

Didn't have the chance or it slipped my mind as we were pretty busy pedal to the metal kind of weekend while these guys were here.

I'll call Mike Pennington on Monday and find out the answers to your questions as he's technically the source for the official word for this type of information.

I stick by what I said previously and that is the water spot remover is going to be very NON aggressive for a number of reasons.

As for the clay, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Clay is for abrading off above surface bonded contaminants.

An abrasive polish is for abrading off actual paint in an effort to level the surface and thus restore a flat, defect free finish.

You cannot remove below surface defects using detailing clay. You can remove some above surface bonded contaminants using an abrasive polish depending upon how you apply it. That said, the most "effective" way to remove above surface bonded contaminants is via a mechanical method like detailing clay or products like the Speedy Prep Surface Towel, Nanoskin Autoscrub Pads or wash mitts, etc.

I recommend that if you do any type of decontaminating using clay or some other mechanical means to clean the surface you should also plan on doing at least one machine polishing process to ensure a defect free, clear finish.

[sullivette]

Mike,

I understand that clay wont remove the below surface contaminants. I was just wondering, for water spots that are on the surface; which would be be less likely to mar the surface or would mar the surface the least? (the Meguiar's red clay or Swirl-X)

Any word from Mike Pennington? I probably should have just made an account on Meguiar's website and asked there instead of bugging you all the time lol.

[ShaunD]

Like Mike stated, apples to oranges. Swirl-X is intended to polish the paint there by rounding out sharp edges and removing paint to give a swirl free finish. Clay is meant to abrade contamination off the surface and grab the contamination. It is not a polish but could be considered an abrasive closer to a scouring pad or magic eraser IMO. That said, clay can never polish the paint but used properly will not instill new defects other than light surface marring. This is why it is recommended to follow the claying step with a light polish or AIO and or your LSP. People tend to forget that when claying you are trying to break free bonded and solid contamination free from the paint with nothing more clay lube lubricating the clay so it will glide over the surface. Clay lube does very little to keep a solid particle from contacting the paint and scratching it. We rely on the clay to hold and keep the contaminants away from the paint but, at some point they will be rubbed against the paint before imbedding into the clay, which may leave scratches/marring.
Swirl-X used to remove contamination could leave a swirl free finish but could also leave scratches as the contamination breaks free and becomes an abrasive in the polishing media(foam pad or MF).
All that said, using products like vinegar, water spot removers, soil/film remover, and decontaminating chemicals like Iron-X, help dissolve bonded contamination so claying is less likely to mar the paint, if needed at all. That is the process I would use before claying or polishing.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike,

I understand that clay wont remove the below surface contaminants. I was just wondering, for water spots that are on the surface; which would be be less likely to mar the surface or would mar the surface the least?

(the Meguiar's red clay or Swirl-X)

That's easy...

SwirlX

The red or actually maroon clay is "aggressive" and aggressive clay's have the potential to cause clay haze. Clay haze is the kinder, more gentle and fluffy way of saying clay scratches.

Any word from Mike Pennington? I probably should have just made an account on Meguiar's website and asked there instead of bugging you all the time lol.

I have an e-mail into Mike Pennington and no one ever bugs me... just stay real busy so much of the day...