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  1. #1
    Mike Phillips
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    Removing Swirls out of Cermaiclear Paint

    Removing Swirls out of Ceramiclear Paint


    Had a 2006 Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG with some swirls in the Ceramiclear Finish.












    I moved my finger back and now you can see my fingerprint...



    Note to self, next time either leave finger in one place or wipe-off finger print

    Of course it does indicate very in-focus shots.







    Used the least aggressive method due to the reasons I outlined here,

    Ceramiclear Paints - Be Careful


    I often times read others say how hard these paints are but every time I work on one they seem to me to be very easy to work on.



  2. #2
    Super Member Jomax's Avatar
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    Nice job! Does the audi and BMW use this Clear? Family members want me to work on their cars one is a 2010 Audi and the BMW is a 2002. Did they use that clear in those years?
    David 2000 Ford F-350 DRW CCLB BLACK/GOLD
    Wish list:
    Everything Mike has in his garage for detailing

  3. #3
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    Re: Removing Swirls out of Cermaiclear Paint

    Looks great Mike!
    So what Pad/Product did you use?

    From my short expiriance, i found that removing Swirls is the easier part on these hard German cars,

    The problem is that once swirls are removed, a new "layer" of RIDS is relieved.

    In the attached picture you can see a black VW Golf after first pass with Meg's DA MF cutting pad/D300.
    You can clearly see that swirls were removed but from that stage clearing up the RIDS is the bigger challenge.

    how do you recommend handling ceramiclear cars that are "infested" with RIDS?
    (I know and implement, Small working area, pressure on the machine, cleaning the pad after each section, slow movement, overlapping)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Removing Swirls out of Cermaiclear Paint-vw_golf_resised-jpg  

  4. #4
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Removing Swirls out of Cermaiclear Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Jomax View Post
    Nice job! Does the audi and BMW use this Clear? Family members want me to work on their cars one is a 2010 Audi and the BMW is a 2002. Did they use that clear in those years?
    I'm not sure all the makes, models and years of all the cars being painted with PPG Ceramiclear or some version of it. I have a tip for finding specifics out about any car in this article,

    How to use a Discussion Forum to Detail an Engine


    The big picture is no matter what you're working on, a car, guitar or a pedal car,


    Removing scratches and stains off Johnny Zurba's Guitar by hand using ScratchX








    Hand sanding and then machine buffing the paint on a pedal car












    "Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"



  5. #5
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Removing Swirls out of Cermaiclear Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by itay View Post

    Looks great Mike!
    So what Pad/Product did you use?
    I used the Flex 3401 with the Wolfgang Twins and the new Hybrid pads here,

    Lake Country Hybrid Power Finish Ultra Performance Pad System

    Quote Originally Posted by itay View Post

    From my short experience, i found that removing Swirls is the easier part on these hard German cars,

    The problem is that once swirls are removed, a new "layer" of RIDS is relieved.
    That's what most people discover too and if the car in question is a "daily driver" then it's usually best to learn to live with the deeper scratches because removing them mean removing more paint and factory paint is already too thin to start with. See my article here,

    RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term...


    Here's an excerpt...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips
    When do RIDS Show Up?
    As mentioned above in my accounting of a story that plays itself out with almost ever customer and most if not all detailing classes, RIDS show up after you perform the first cleaning or compounding step.

    In most cases, and especially if the paint has been neglected or abused, the paint will be filled with hundreds of thousands of light or shallow swirls and scratches. At this point, when you look at the paint you don't really see the RIDS because the are masked or camouflaged by the hundreds of thousands of deeper scratches.

    AFTER you compound or use some type of paint cleaner or cleaner/polish over the paint, then wipe off the residue... then the RIDS show up.

    This isn't always true for all RIDS as deeper RIDS will show up easily to your eyes even when surrounded by hundreds of swirls, like this... note the straight-line scratches in a few random directions included in the mass cobweb swirls throughout the paint.





    Quote Originally Posted by itay View Post

    how do you recommend handling Ceramiclear cars that are "infested" with RIDS?
    (I know and implement, Small working area, pressure on the machine, cleaning the pad after each section, slow movement, overlapping)

    First, for the reasons I outlined in the article below I would be very wary about removing RIDS out of a car with a Ceramiclear finish on a "Daily Driver".

    Ceramiclear Paints - Be Careful






    Evaluate the customer and after that their car. If the customer is just the "average joe" with a "daily driver" then educate them that removing enough paint to remove the RIDS will also be removing UV inhibitors designed to protect the paint from the sun.

    IF the car is a daily driver then chances are good the car will continue to see wear-n-tear and there will be more RIDS in the future and to try to continually remove all the deeper scratches is kind of pointless... for a daily driver. UNLESS the customer is from this day forward going to take care of the car like it's a show car.

    If the car is a show car and the owner is aware that they need to be careful not to instill swirls and scratches AFTER you remove them then here's some tips here for removing RIDS

    RIDS and Feathersanding - A Highly Specialized Technique by Mike Phillips




    If you want to do it by machine, check out this article,


    Griot's 3" Mini Polisher works great as a 3" Dampsander









  6. #6
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Removing Swirls out of Cermaiclear Paint

    Couple more pics from that day...











    That's a Ferrari Windshield we're using for the pad rotation/oscillation demonstration...




  7. #7
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    Re: Removing Swirls out of Cermaiclear Paint

    Thanks mike!

    You gave me the answer i was looking for:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips
    "if the car in question is a "daily driver" then it's usually best to learn to live with the deeper scratches because removing them mean removing more paint"


  8. #8
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Removing Swirls out of Cermaiclear Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by itay View Post

    Thanks mike!

    You gave me the answer i was looking for:

    You're welcome...

    Factory paint is thin, so it's always a good idea to use the least aggressive products to get the job done and learn to live with the deeper defects versus remove them by removing the precious thin layer of clear that came from the factory.

    Remove the shallow swirls and scratches and then make sure everything that touches the paint into the future is the highest quality you can obtain...

    Avoid inflicting swirls and scratches so you won't have to remove them. Also avoid anyone or anything that would inflict swirls and scratches for the same reason.



  9. #9
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    Re: Removing Swirls out of Cermaiclear Paint

    YEAH!!!!!!! Lets see I tried to record Autogeeks Garage yesterday and ended up recording UFC. It said Autogeeks garage? If the garage uses a chain link ring and beats the snot out of each other then its a rough place to work. I do believe the microfiber towels are softer for cleaning blood off the face but....HEHE

  10. #10
    Regular Member brentech's Avatar
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    Re: Removing Swirls out of Cermaiclear Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    This picture makes me both happy and sad. Poor AMG, glad it could be fixed up though.
    -Brent

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