Opticoat 2.0 discontinued, OptiCoat Pro sees price increase

[Rayaz]

I've had an email exchange with Ronald Doyle (of OPT) in which he hinted that Gloss-Coat may last longer than 2 years. He said that it was an entirely new product and not a rebranding of OC 2.0 without permanent longevity. If it is a new product, why not slot it in and keep OC 2.0?

I came away with the impression that OPT isn't really interested in the hobbyist market any more as Mr. Doyle said customers who desire a more durable coating could look to Opticoat Pro. I can't buy Opticoat Pro because I'm not a pro and don't fit the rules they have made for trade in this coating.

I certainly don't buy enough of anything to keep a company like OPT afloat so they obviously don't NEED guys like me...they hope

Oh well. I'm looking forward to trying products from CarPro and Gtechniq.

[HD.Detailing]

yea and $150/10ml for OCPRO.. no thank you

[HD.Detailing]

22ple is now roughly $20 dollars more expensive, overnight, at another site. Go figure. I was going to order before the price increase. But with a tactic like that, noway.

that should be a non-permanent increase... stay tuned, some new exciting offers from 22ple in the very near future!! Pro-only coating!!

[Setec Astronomy]

fair enough. i just wonder if it's more of the suspected "marketing" they might have wanted to separate itself from Pro as opposed to it actually being less durable than 2.0. so they use the two year number, "semi-perm", etc.

i'll have to ask Dr. G himself just to be 100% clear. but i see what you guys are saying. thanks!

I've had an email exchange with Ronald Doyle (of OPT) in which he hinted that Gloss-Coat may last longer than 2 years.

I hope you're right, but I'm guessing the things put in the product to make it slick just won't last forever, or make the coating not last forever. Perhaps after 2 years the coating will still be there but the gloss and slickness will not. As I (and others) keep saying, for most of us Geeks we'll be doing something to the vehicle in less than 2 years, a maintenance polish, etc....of course it's always nice to have the option of not having to redo the coating in 2 years. Anyway...

I came away with the impression that OPT isn't really interested in the hobbyist market any more...I certainly don't buy enough of anything to keep a company like OPT afloat so they obviously don't NEED guys like me...they hope

OPT has always served other markets (OEM, etc.) but they certainly must care about the enthusiast/hobbyist market--plus they make tons of other great products besides OC 2.0--how about ONR, ONRWW, Opti-Lens, Opti-Glass, Opti-Seal, OCW, OPC, Opti-Bond, and the crème and spray polishes are great. And they of course make metal polish, carpet cleaner, QD, waterless wash, conventional wash, clay, clay substitute.

[allenk4]

I didn't know OPT was being used as Original Equipment direct from the Manufacturer (OEM)

1st time I have heard that

[Setec Astronomy]

I didn't know OPT was being used as Original Equipment direct from the Manufacturer (OEM)

1st time I have heard that

OPT provides materials for line repair of paint systems to OEM's (Original Equipment Manufacturers). It's discussed in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mOU...4770B9EF5#t=57 but they have been supplying that OEM market from way before that vid was made in 2010.

[cardaddy]

WOW.... Whaddya' know.... pop another disc and stay away for a coupla' weeks and the whole world goes to snot!

Here is my thought, and I wonder why most of these companies do not do this. I know many of us have typed (since we are not speaking) our concerns over price and order minimums.
Why can the manufacturer and distributors go to the likely candidates for "Pro Level" Installer status and make that detailer go thru training? There could be a fee even, but that person would need to go thru application training and also sales training to know what they can and cannot tell the client. Then they would receive a certificate of training completion. Then you buy directly from the distributor, but there are no minimums.
I think that would be a great way to keep the talented part time exclusive detailers in the loop without a penalization for wanting to use a great product. We can all agree that OC is a great product, if not, no one would be worrying too much about this.

Just my $.02

HUMP

Dealer training.... what a concept.

Seems I suggested something similar many times over the years. (Not necessarily about OPT, but as a resource for MANY different "Authorized Dealer" plans.)

I don't know, Hump, the way I understand it they have the country divided in half, with one distributor on each side of the Mississippi. That's a lot of traveling around, particularly considering the eastern distributor is Chris Thomas, who has his own business to run.

Whatever is going on, it's a little crazy when they are losing guys like Rasky and Zach. Perhaps the push is to dealers like some people have mentioned, I just don't know if the dealer market can really support the quality of the product--I mean, when the dealer sells you a $1000 paint protection, does it really matter if it's Opti-Coat or their miracle goo which is no better than a cheap sealant, if they are going to swirl the crap out of it on the first courtesy wash?

I totally, TOTALLY, T-O-T-A-L-L-Y agree, as you're talking about "car dealer installed products"! Those guys, as we know... don't know a swirl from a squirrel. Never mind the fact that THEY DON'T CARE to know the difference. Imagine telling the dealership guys offering OCP on a new vehicle that they need to spend at least half a day with each vehicle (at the very least), doing rail dust removal, a light polish (possibly a 2-step), some quality pads, a DA (not a rotary), know how to do "panel wipes" correctly, AND have a couple dozen REAL microfiber towels (the kind that don't lay on the ground all month) just to get the paint prepped before even starting the application.

Having a body shop manager from a Hennessy dealership regularly send me work is case in point. He knows that they are in a different environment, "production shop" being the words we use most often. Not what a "real" detailer does and I think we know that. (Or we should.) And that has NOTHING at ALL to do with whether or not you do it "Full Time" (as some of the forum "part timers" would attest)... that are IMHO professionals in every sense of the word. Rather what it DOES have to do with is HOW you do your work, and WHAT type of work you do. My local shop manager will tell you that he simply doesn't have the time, (nor does he want to find it) to put 15~20 hours into a paint correction.

that's way too expensive. paint and body guys can do it because they are selling hugely expensive commodities that get used like water by non-specialists. this is a very niche thing.

imo if the company is putting such a low monthly quota on the product, if that isn't doable, i'd really question the need for having access to the product in the first place, especially when they are offering Gloss-Coat which has a durability claim that matches the CQF warranty term length. two cars a month is not a lot to ask. you can shoot holes in my posts all you want, as a pro has been trying to do on another forum, but i follow the industry closely and that is not unreasonable. OPT needs to make money and the only way that happens is when their authorized installers are actually selling product. $3600 a year or whatever in sales is extremely reasonable when you look at it from all points.

also, and i can personally attest to this dilemma as i've been ripped off by one - the supposed elite detailers who make the most noise and create an image of being the ultimate detailer online...they can be a complete fraud. COMPLETE FRAUD. so, instead of trying to figure out who is who and going to the locations and training, etc., etc., i think it's just a lot easier for a smaller manufacturer like OPT to come up with some broad stroke baselines that will keep those really interested in the product on board and adjust the pricing accordingly so they (the manufacturer) can actually make some money selling something that is 100% created in the USA - R&D, testing, packaging, shipping...all done here.

Agree totally with your statements on "supposed elite detailers". (See the above statement RE dealerships and them having detailing departments versus your typical forum educated detailer. Not to mention the mindset of a better educated, and/or practiced detailer versus the $8 hourly wash bay type.) Never know when you'll run across a guy that charges a ton, therefore he MUST be good, right? Then you find that he has see thru microfiber towels, uses dirty pads (or the cheapest ones he can find), and has maybe 2 bottle of compound. (I know a guy that works for a dealership that takes THEIR products to work on the side with.)


Many, no make that almost ALL new car buyers think that the dealership *IS*.... WHERE YOU TAKE YOUR VEHICLE FOR DETAILING SERVICES. I have no doubt that 98% of all forum members here will do a better job on a vehicle than 98% of all dealerships. And of those members, I'm willing to bet that 75% that own a modern DA/orbital style buffer can do the prep work well enough to apply a modern coating. Or at least equal to and probably BETTER than what you'd get at the dealership. Why????? Because as Mike Phillips says, forum educated detailers are better at it.


However; the "quota" situation isn't that simple.

Many "pro" or perhaps as Optimum is trying to say "amateur" or at best "semi-pro" detailers just do not have the need for a bare minimum of 2 full orders of OCP per month. Keeping in mind that in many areas of the country coatings are not a 12 month business. Some might argue as few as 4~5 months of good detailing weather (or less). That means you'll end up spending $600 per month just to STOCK a product that you may or may not sell. Remember... Optimum doesn't care if you actually sell the product, just as they don't care if you know how to apply it. They CARE only if you're sending them $300 a month and (at least in the agreement I have here) have $100K worth of liability insurance.

FWIW, I carry the right insurance, do coatings (when needed) but have no desire to limit my business to only ONE LINE OF COATINGS.

Yet 100% of all dealerships will be able to 'meet' the new Optimum requirements.

Having "Authorized Dealer Installers" actually complete some sort of dealer training I would submit isn't expensive at all. What would the cost be for the company/manufacturer/distributor? Perhaps the cost of the printed certificate.
Most (if not all) detailers that frequent both forums and are the type to provide coatings for customers are the type to attend training. Training such as you would find at say Detail Fest. Detail Fest, (let me remind all) is far from free for the detailer. Want to attend a class that Mequiar's is having... that'll cost you. Want to learn the latest methods taught by Mike P. and the gang... that'll cost you too. Easy enough for Optimum to tie in their "Authorized Installer" programs with one of many distributor hosted events throughout the country. Pay the fee (as a interested installer) and get not only your training, but a discounted dealer package. Maybe something like a 90 day introductory package, or 6 months minimum 1 package per month.

That is a WIN WIN WIN for companies such as Optimum that are wanting to build a strong COMITTED and LOYAL dealer network. Would they get the full $300 a month for the first say 3 month package? Maybe not, but it is CRITICAL to put something in front of your installers/dealers to give them a perceived value over and above just buying that darned $300 worth of TWO 10ml syringes. Remember... the dealer will PAY for training! And with that, say they get 1 package, along with a wall plaque, dealer credentials, and value pricing. (Perhaps ladder packaging over and above the introductory package.)

Not only that, but you may actually be able (down the road) to have your Authorized Dealers turn into training centers for yet more dealers. Give them a piece of the pie. Let them sell the training seminars and keep a percentage. That way you don't even have to invest in any new dealer training other than at major shows/events. (Even though you get paid no matter WHEN or WHERE the training takes place.)

I've had an email exchange with Ronald Doyle (of OPT) in which he hinted that Gloss-Coat may last longer than 2 years. He said that it was an entirely new product and not a rebranding of OC 2.0 without permanent longevity. If it is a new product, why not slot it in and keep OC 2.0?

I came away with the impression that OPT isn't really interested in the hobbyist market any more as Mr. Doyle said customers who desire a more durable coating could look to Opticoat Pro. I can't buy Opticoat Pro because I'm not a pro and don't fit the rules they have made for trade in this coating.

I certainly don't buy enough of anything to keep a company like OPT afloat so they obviously don't NEED guys like me...they hope

Oh well. I'm looking forward to trying products from CarPro and Gtechniq.

"They hope".....

And therein lies the rub....

You are right however in that it's pretty clear that OPT has no further interest in the hobbyist market. (If they ever had it at all.) One way for the hobbyist to make those (collective) voices heard is stop buying the products. Made in the USA is all fine and good, but when you start cutting off you nose and all.... the face starts to look sorta' ugly.

What really concerns me is the quote from Mr. Doyle. Just thinking that somehow customers would/should automatically just gravitate towards paying the MAP price just to get OCP is typical narrow minded "my product is super exclusive" thinking. Sorry... but there are PLENTY of up and coming products out there that'll fight for my hard earned detailing dollar(s).

I come from a place where I've had a passion for audio for many years. Taking that passion (and some education in architecture back in school) and was able to use that to start a business back in the 90's, consulting, selling, installing home theater systems. As such, we went to CES several years in a row, (then started skipping around a bit). I had several connections I made while out there that wanted us to sell their products. Thing is, all these guys tended to come from a show called T.H.E. Show. (The Home Entertainment Show) These guys (the show promoters) have lived totally immersed in the mystique of esoteric audio.... having things that nobody has heard of, have never seen, and most people can NEVER afford.
The Home Entertainment Show Las Vegas
The Home Entertainment Show Newport Beach Exhibitor's Home

Neat show reports dating back several years at this link.
Show Reports | Stereophile.com

Any-who.... the folks you'll meet there are more dedicated to audio, (especially high end audio) than the bunch of shiny car nerds you'll find around ANY detailing forum. The correlation though is that you'll find manufacturers there that want to sell their gear, but DO NOT want to sell much of it. They figure if they can sell a little bit at a VERY HIGH price then that's better than selling a lot at half that price. Trust me; I sold several different speaker manufacturers products that I met there, (and made killer profits doing it) but you'll only find so many people that are willing to pay that much.

I've sold my share of $5000 a pair bookshelf monitors, but you'll run out of buyers for those speakers fairly quickly.

The rest all think that BOSE is high end! NOT!!!!!

Selling "exclusivity" is all the rage.

The thing is, coatings (especially it seems those from Optimum) are (even if the verbiage is ever changing) semi/quasi/or some other type of-permanent. That means that you need to find NEW vehicles each and every month, till the END OF TIME in order to keep selling that product. Whether you are the installer or the manufacturer it really doesn't matter. You have got to find a never ending supply of vehicles to apply that product to.

The issue of MAP price doesn't bother me at all. ANY manufacturer that wants to protect his product will put something in place to protect against that, as well as no internet sales. Heck, I still have agreements in place with distributors for more mass marketed products (such as Denon electronics) and even those guys will tell you if you want to sell their product, you'll sell at an agreed MAP price. But the one thing they DO NOT do is go up 600% in 24 months! In fact, you can buy more receiver/amp/Blu-ray player these days for the money than you could 24 months ago, or 24 years ago for that matter.

The price may stay the same, but what you get for that price keeps getting better. (Or at least has more bells & whistles.)

No worries though when you're looking at CarPro products as both Autogeek and Corey himself are more than willing to work with you, (Finest being the exception). And literally EVERYTHING that CarPro has is first rate!

What I'm looking at; is in todays market the detailer that WANTS to draw in new business, be it one that does 1 or 2 cars a month, (even 1 or 2 a week) has a business checking account (IE is not trying to run a cash business as a summer job), or perhaps is one that is very well known and stays booked well out into the future (often 6~8 weeks or more) or even the guy that sells his business as totally exclusive all share one thing in common. They ALL need to offer a range of products that bring in customers and satisfy whatever need may arise!!!!!

In the world of ever arising (and ever changing) coatings (whether the verbiage reads temporary, permanent or semi-permanent) could AND SHOULD offer more than one solution to his customers potential needs. Having to invest in *INVENTORY* just to be given the privilege to apply something as easily attainable as a ceramic/silica/polymer et all based coating, when said coatings can be at your door "next day" if needed seems a bit arbitrary and not well thought out. Remembering that (according to statements made here and elsewhere) even though the price has gone up, and the volume has gone down, you can (supposedly) still do more than 1 vehicle with 10ml, so that's at least 3 if not 4 per month.

Yes yes.... I know that one need not actually carry "inventory", but when it comes end of the month and you've not bought your $300 allocation, you can bet that you'll be either buying "inventory" or you'll be doing something else. Offering a product to sell should be more important to the manufacturer than minimum purchasing requirements (when it comes to chemicals at least). Perhaps it would be time for some manufacturers to consider distributor allocation channels and associated dealer streams to add to their bottom line along the way. I know that the large electronic manufacturers (one mentioned above) have such distributor channels in place just for such instances. Albeit less profit for the end dealer as the cost is higher with the MAP price being the same as "direct to dealer" pricing. However there are NO minimum purchase requirements for many manufacturers, especially when you're dealing with the custom market. And what is the high-end detailing (coating market) if not custom.

O-tay.... that's enough posting to catch up for 3 weeks absence perhaps. Back to a fresh ice-pack and pain meds I'll be heading now.

[builthatch]

Yet 100% of all dealerships will be able to 'meet' the new Optimum requirements.

i don't agree with this. the quota and such was announced to existing auth installers, meaning, they were already approved and jumped through the initial hoops required to get on that list AND were already blessed by OPT using variables that we are not privy to. please consider that there is a large part of the "requirements" that aren't shown in that announcement. you can bet they are taking a look at what kind of reputation and work is being put out. has everyone on their auth list been THE BEST EVER? nope. is there any reliable way to assure that? nope. and frankly, i don't think it really matters just as long as the reseller is committed to putting out a good product that satisfies their customers. ultimately, that is what OPT wants. they always have, from what i've seen. OPT has basic requirements for their products to work and to suddenly think with no concrete basis that they are going to just release the flood gates so everyone and their mother who does volume work can wave the OPT flag is not realistic or accurate!

the only thing i'm seeing from all of this is that they want the professional outfits who can actually sell product and uphold OPT's reputation to have access to it. makes sense. to have a nice and thorough nationwide auth installer list is nice but if a high majority of the guys aren't buying product, it does OPT no good. so, they restructured the program so the guys who can sell this program will be the only ones selling it. how the heck that suddenly translates to dealerships, hack shops and all the other worst case scenarios being thrown about in these internet threads, i don't know.

You are right however in that it's pretty clear that OPT has no further interest in the hobbyist market. (If they ever had it at all.) One way for the hobbyist to make those (collective) voices heard is stop buying the products. Made in the USA is all fine and good, but when you start cutting off you nose and all.... the face starts to look sorta' ugly.

really?? look at the entire line. the enthusiast-accessible offering far outweighs the pro-only offering list. almost every product has been made to make enthusiast life easier. spray polish and compound. one of the original spray waxes, Opti-Seal, No Rinse, Opti-Clean, etc. their release of 2.0, which was more or less based on a pro product, was them completely acknowledging the enthusiast market. and, if you look at the upgrades to Gloss-Coat, almost every single part of that evolution was dictated by the enthusiast market! he even made it do stuff that is arguably stupid for a coating to be able to do, but because of the silly nature of some of our habits, he still included those features.

i think there are too many assumptions being put out there about OPT's motives and people are losing sight of the big picture here about what OPT has always been and still is. this has gone waaaaay too far on the forums.

[Setec Astronomy]

i think there are too many assumptions being put out there about OPT's motives and people are losing sight of the big picture here about what OPT has always been and still is. this has gone waaaaay too far on the forums.

Where is Optimum then to explain/refute this? I haven't seen Dr. G or a surrogate posting anywhere about this, even though Optimum has their own forum, and a dedicated subforum over at AF. I just don't understand why they're not doing any damage/spin control on this (I mean I understood originally the timing may have been bad, but they've had some time now).

[allenk4]

OPT provides materials for line repair of paint systems to OEM's (Original Equipment Manufacturers). It's discussed in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mOU...4770B9EF5#t=57 but they have been supplying that OEM market from way before that vid was made in 2010.

I was focused on coatings and the possibility that OPT coatings were used in an OEM setting

I didn't even think about polishes/repair