Have to vent.....:(

[RaskyR1]

Well the insurance company had a represetative come out to look at the TSX. They saw the swirls and contacted the body about the finish. The body shop would like to buff out the car or have a detailing service that they deal with complete the job. I really don't feel good about the body shop or a detailing service buffing the finish.

I wouldn't let the body shop touch it, like Mike said above...they didn't do it right the first time, and they probably won't get it right the second time either.

I'd ask to speak with the person at their detail shop before hand. Ask him about the process he plans to use to remove the swirls. Find out what type of polisher, pads, and products, as well as technique. That should give you a good idea whether they know what they are doing or not.

Then come back and list the info for us.

[Pitch Black]

Then come back and list the info for us.

hahaha...

I had planned to wash the car this afternoon and start working on the finish with the Flex early Friday morning. I took Friday off to have an extra day to work on the exterior and interior. The leather on the drivers seat is really dirty.

[Mike Phillips]

I wouldn't let the body shop touch it, like Mike said above...they didn't do it right the first time, and they probably won't get it right the second time either.

I'd ask to speak with the person at their detail shop before hand. Ask him about the process he plans to use to remove the swirls. Find out what type of polisher, pads, and products, as well as technique. That should give you a good idea whether they know what they are doing or not.

Then come back and list the info for us.

I really don't want to over dramatize what should be a very simple thing but I've seen this happen first hand and answered threads like this for years.

Body shop and Production Detail Shops are all about speed, and quality comes second. At the very last step they put glaze or some kind of wax or sealant over their buffing work to mask or hide the swirls they leave in.

Note, it's not all the detailers fault, I've met man detailers, or what's loosely referred to as the painter's helper, (the guy that does the buffing work because the painter usually doesn't do it), and these guys doing the work are stuck

• Using the products and tools given them
• Doing the work in the time allotted to them

Product and Tools
For example, if all the guy has is a rotary buffer with a wool pad, or even a foam pad, and who knows what kind of chemicals, then it doesn't matter if he's good at buffing out paint, it's his tools that are at least part of the problem and he has no control over that.

Time allotted
If the shop manager says get that car buffed out and then do this one next, then the guy know he has two cars to get buffed out and that's 4 hours in one day for both cars and there's probably other things he has to do also. You can't rush quality work.


Something I post all the time goes like this,

Detailers that hang out on forums know more than detailers that don't hang out on forums.

I'm not dissing detailers that don't hang out on forums it's just a fact. I've met plenty of production detailers that don't have a computer or if they do they don't get on the Internet with it and even if they do get on the Internet with it they don't hang out on forums like AutogeekOnline, Autopia, MOL or DetailCity and educate themselves.

They know what they know and for the most part that's about it.

That's why I said, if they couldn't do it right the first time, chances are they won't be able to do it right the second time because they're going to do the same thing they did the first time only at the end add a little more glaze or wax or something to get the paint to look good enough to get you to accept it. It might even look good but what happens when you start washing the glaze or wax off.

What's crazy is the dual action polisher isn't really an expensive tool, it's not hard to learn, and it's pretty good at removing swirls after the rotary buffer steps, yet so many body shops and production detail shops don't know about them and/or don't use them.


Now let me add this to the mix...

Each time they buff the car they take some of the precious paint off that you just paid, (or your insurance company just paid), to have sprayed on.

The life of the paint is in it's thickness or film-build. If they buff off too much you increase the chance for the paint to fail down the road, (clear coat failure), and also there's less paint on the car for >you< too work on, for example a bird dropping leaves an etching in the paint, is there enough paint on the car to remove enough to remove the etching without going through the clear coat?


I apologize for bringing up all these subtle points about this typical scenario that's played out in body shops and production detail shops everyday, but it's my nature to do my best to educate people on all these factors.


Again, this is why so many people turn to discussion forums to get information and then buy tools like the PC and pads and chemicals and Just Do It, as Nike is famous for saying.

I'm sure some people don't even want to buff out their own car but they don't know who to trust so they take ownership of the process.

[Pitch Black]

WOW Mike!!
Thank you for all the information. I can't say I hate buffing it just takes so long, my arms get sore, and I get nervous about the possibility of screwing up the finish. I did well with the Frontier but I have only ever buffed one car in the past.

I do love the results though!!!

[RaskyR1]

hahaha...

I had planned to wash the car this afternoon and start working on the finish with the Flex early Friday morning. I took Friday off to have an extra day to work on the exterior and interior. The leather on the drivers seat is really dirty.

Even better!


Mike I wasn't saying that she should have the detail shop do the car, but since it sounded like she didn't have the time to tackle the job herself, that she should and least check it out first before letting them do it. I've had the body shop my father works at send me cars from time to time when they have a car like the OP situation and can't get it right.

Having spent more time than I'd like to admit in a high volume shop, I'd agree 100% with what you said though.

[Laura]

Even better!

Mike I wasn't saying that she should have the detail shop do the car, but since it sounded like she didn't have the time to tackle the job herself, that she should and least check it out first before letting them do it. I've had the body shop my father works at send me cars from time to time when they have a car like the OP situation and can't get it right.

Having spent more time than I'd like to admit in a high volume shop, I'd agree 100&#37; with what you said though.

Pitch Black, I really feel for you!!

Mike & any others, I have a question. I have a door ding that by most standards isn't even noticable; however, it jumps out at me every day. For those of us who want perfect cars, how do you decide if the body shop will leave your car in worse shape than when you took it in.

If this was in your car, would you take it in, or just live with it?

[crazymagman]

I'm "the husband" who's truck had the awesome buffing job. I must admit that I'm very disappointed in the shop, and today talked to their supervisor and then the owner. The supervisor is more than willing to do whatever it takes to make us happy, but the owner was such an a-hole that my next step is to take this to the BBB. I am going to discuss with State Farm about having them removed from the preferred list, as they wanted to know the outcome of this also, and they were very angry to hear how the shop repeatedly kept making mistakes. Anyways, we got the TSX all washed up tonight and will start on the buffing bright and early tomorrow. Hopefully she comes out as good or better than she was before.

[O.C.Detailing]

Damn...I wish Lynchburg, VA were closer to you guys. I'd come help you out with my Griot's DA. I hate shoddy shop jobs and fixing the paint after uneducated people wash their cars over the years with the wrong materials and wonder why the paint looks so bad. Good luck you two.

[crazymagman]

Damn...I wish Lynchburg, VA were closer to you guys. I'd come help you out with my Griot's DA. I hate shoddy shop jobs and fixing the paint after uneducated people wash their cars over the years with the wrong materials and wonder why the paint looks so bad. Good luck you two.

Thanks!!! We've actually worked on the car since Friday morning, and not only are the swirls gone, but a couple small scratches that were there before they messed it all up. She looks just awesome now!!! Anyway, I have filed with the BBB and requested a refund for the work. I'll be calling State Farm tomorrow to work with them on trying to get this shop off their preferred list. And every where that I can find Shippers Auto Collision, Lebanon, TN on the internet, I've been putting a very poor rating and posting a review. At this point, even if I don't get anything else out of it, I want to keep others from having to go through what we have with this completely ridiculous owner.

Mike

[Steven C]

Congrat on you detail job .It's very upsetting to hear off your experience. I actually had on just as bad to happen to my wife Honda Odessey someone back into the rear slidding door destory it . We went to pick up the van after 4 weeks. I happen to take the day off so I drove to p/u the van with my wife &kids.We pull they are wash the car with a brush I would wash my deck with then proceed to dry with with towels so dirty they could to wipe wheel wells
I go outside to inspect the car before signing any paperwork plus took pics with my phone of their process so far . As my and the manger go out he's tell about how good theyre I look at the car and paint isn't even close to matching let alone it not blue metallic ,just blue and the door wouldn't close right and it's gaps were all off it needed to alined. I turn to him& asked him if I was on PUNKED,he couldn't be serious If he thought I going to except the car in this condtion.The long story short. After 2 weeks haggling over the car with my Insurance Company & Him I had to get my lawyer involed and removed the car and brought to another shop which my brotherin law runs . At the time this started they were to busy to get the car in so my wife insisted on going to some here friend recommend (Ya with friends like who enemys). The only justice was he had to pay for all the extra work done by brother in laws shop which pretty much was to start over. The Door which got paided to replace with new one was used one he bought out of scrap yard and was diiferent color on the inside go figure. The body shop was closed not 2 months later byThe LawDogs for Insurance fruad & Tax evasion on multiple counts or multiple years. So I feel your pain and very hapy you were able to correct them. Congrats