Meguiar's D302 causing swirls??

[Matt@Revive]

i was polishing a friends car this weekend to remove some light spider weds and swirls. after washing, claying, i did my first test spot using a PC 7424, a black foam finishing pad and Meguair's D302 polish. when i wiped the section clean the test spot was full of swirls and pigtails. i cleaned the section with 50/50 IPA and fit a brand new black pad and tried again only to find there were more swirls and pigtails added after the second try.

am i polishing too light, not allowing the polish to break down? or is there something wrong with the paint on the car?

[cardaddy]

Hmmmm.... that's a new one with D302 (for me at least). Considering it's a fairly light polish.

Are both those pads new?
And are they Lake Country black foam? (Knowing others have the same color, yet they provide more cut than Lake Country black does.)
Were they somehow used before for something with more cut in it? (That might not have been washed out completely.)

As for polishing too light, nope I doubt that. Generally you'll see those results when polishing too heavy (IE too much arm weight).

On another note; I'd not suggest a 50% IPA solution, that's a bit harsh. FWIW I've had great results lately using Meguiar's D114 with a 20% solution (as a substitute for Eraser).

If you'd like a really easy IPA dilution calculator,try this one. It's totally plug-n-play, and for distilled spirits, but the calculation is the same.

[Matt@Revive]

i was a Shurhold black pad, the first on had been used with M205, the second was new. i also tried it with a Meguiar's MF finishing pad with the same result.

[The Guz]

I am thinking it's the pad since D302 is a pure polish that has a very low cut. The cutting ability according to Michael Stoops is well under M205.

How are you priming your pads?

[hernandez.art13]

Residue comes to mind.

Check this out:

Matt's 5.0 Heater with Jason Rose & Kevin Brown | ammo hydrate, larry kosilla, detailing for profit, ammo nyc car products | AMMO NYC Podcast

[hernandez.art13]

Zoomed it in for you.



Also, I've seen these pigtails before but it was usually from DA sanding, because of residue build up on the sanding disc. Which in turn started to create "pigtails"

But seems odd to me that this happened from the polishing stage of the job.

I wonder if something got stuck on the pad and starting scratching the paint and created pigtails.

I went back and thought maybe to switch to a new pad, but you said you did that.

Maybe you should have clayed more. Meaning whatever if anything got left behind on the paint that claying didn't remove. Could have possibly become abrasive and created the pigtails.

The baggie test is a good strategy to check if the paint is thoroughly prepped prior to polishing.

I'd recommend figuring out what is going on here. Prep, product, machine, technique, etc... and dialing in your process in that area. (Test spot) then replicating it throughout the car.

Also, I've found that doing test spots are a huge time saver. However, sometimes it is a great idea to check your work as your working on the car.

Some parts of cars have different paint systems in different areas throughout the car.

Just trying to help.

[Mike Phillips]

Pigtails are scratches put into the paint from machine wet sanding.

What I see is called DA Haze or some call it micro-marring or Tick Marks. All three words mean the same thing and it's the scratch pattern left in the paint when using a dual action polisher. It can be caused by the pad or the abrasives in the product or both.

I'd rule out the foam pad since you say it's a black finishing pad, which would be the right pad to "try" with D302. D302 is formulated for Meguiar's DA Microfiber Correction System and specifically for their microfiber finishing pad.

I've tested all these product on black paint and the D302 can cause micro-marring when used with a soft foam finishing pad on soft paint.

Assuming the pad is clean, the paint is clean and you did everything else right, the last potential option would be soft paint.

Do you have any other dedicated fine cut polishes?


D302 is a polish/wax, that's kind of like a cleaner/wax. A dedicated polish is a product that doesn't include any protection ingredients, it's sole purpose is to abrade the paint.

Also, is this a repaint?

[Setec Astronomy]

D302 is a polish/wax, that's kind of like a cleaner/wax.

Mike, maybe I'm mixed up, but I thought that D302 was a finishing polish without "wax", and that D301 was the Finishing Wax.

I've tested all these product on black paint and the D302 can cause micro-marring when used with a soft foam finishing pad on soft paint.

Wow, even if you meant D301, that's surprising to me. Although they did say that D300/D301 was for factory paint.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike, maybe I'm mixed up, but I thought that D302 was a finishing polish without "wax", and that D301 was the Finishing Wax.

You got me Mike.... you're correct and my mistake, I was thinking of D301 which is a polish/wax.

The D302 is a dedicated polish.

Meguiars D30216 DA Microfiber Polish

I think the time stamp of my post is 7:11am as in I just arrived to work and read this thread and then posted so it could be the first cup of coffee hasn't fully engaged the brain.

I practice really hard not to make mistakes especially simple mistakes like this one but luckily with almost 50,000 posts I think it's safe to say my mistakes are far and few between.

Wow, even if you meant D301, that's surprising to me. Although they did say that D300/D301 was for factory paint.

Actually, this product was brought out specifically to address the DA Haze issue with softer paints that people were running into when using just the D300 and D301 with the microfiber pads.

From the linked-to page above....

Meguiars DA Microfiber Polish is designed to effectively remove compounding haze that is often associated with DA polishers on softer paint systems.

Formulated using an advanced blend of polishing oils and micro-fine abrasives, Meguiars DA Microfiber Polish provides complete paint refinement for a defect free finish.

Meguiars DA Microfiber Polish is the perfect intermediate step between compound and wax. Use Meguiars DA Microfiber Polish with a Meguiars DA Microfiber Finishing Disc on your DA polisher.

I have not tested the D302 with foam on black paint but I have the D301 with LC black foam finishing pads on black paint and did find a micro-marring issue on my demo panels which are repaints and thus softer than a factory baked-on finish.

Here's the bigger picture... if the OP is seeing micro-marring or DA Haze using D302 with a soft foam pad on his car's paint then unless there's something else going on this would indicate really soft paint.

It's times like this that I wish I could be there to do some testing myself to see what's going on.

A real fast way to troubleshoot this would be to use a different polish with a foam pad and buff a section of the hazed area to see if a different polish or a different type of abrasive technology could remove the haze.

For example a fine cut polish from Menzerna?

[Setec Astronomy]

I think the time stamp of my post is 7:11am as in I just arrived to work and read this thread and then posted so it could be the first cup of coffee hasn't fully engaged the brain.

I practice really hard not to make mistakes especially simple mistakes like this one but luckily with almost 50,000 posts I think it's safe to say my mistakes are far and few between.

No need to explain, I was simply following this thread and then it started to get a little confusing!

Actually, this product (D302) was brought out specifically to address the DA Haze issue with softer paints that people were running into when using just the D300 and D301 with the microfiber pads.

I have not tested the D302 with foam on black paint but I have the D301 with LC black foam finishing pads on black paint and did find a micro-marring issue on my demo panels which are repaints and thus softer than a factory baked-on finish.

Ah, interesting, now I understand.