wet sand and correction with Flex3401?

[Mike Phillips]

Haven't posted much but i look to this forum for advice and opinions. I am building a '29 Model A Roadster into a hot rod. This was a ground up build and finally after 4 years, I painted all the sheet metal and am getting ready to assemble.

How old is the paint?

Invest in a swirl finder light,

and some Ipa so when your done with enhancing the paint you won't have a heart attack when you pull it out in the sun.

Years ago I wrote the article I NEVER wanted to write. I had to because there were a handful of let's call them people, recommending to everyone and their brother to wipe their paint down with IPA with NO furtner information.

Like how strong of a solution to use?

This left a huge gap and lack of information to anyone reading their advice and following it and the problem with this was there are some risks.

So I asked for someone else to write the article and after a year went by and now one took the challenge I finally wrote it to try to protect people from making a mistake.

Here's the link to the article,

How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results


And here's what it says about using IPA on FRESH PAINT - Just one of the risks... and in fact it's the VERY FIRST PPARAGRAPH IN THE ARTICLE

WARNING
Do not chemically strip FRESH PAINT. Fresh paint has not fully cross-linked, dried and hardened. Introducing any type of solvent to the surface and allowing it to dwell could have a negative effect on the paint.

So to the OP: How old is the paint?

And to anyone reading this into the future, if you're working on fresh paint, that is paint that is less than 30 days old don't wipe it down with IPA.

[Mike Phillips]

Haven't posted much but i look to this forum for advice and opinions. I am building a '29 Model A Roadster into a hot rod.

Cool car and project.

I wanted to try the least aggressive approach, so my procedure is:

1) wet sand with Meguiars 1000 Unigrit until almost smooth.
2) wet sand diagonal pattern across 1000 grit pattern with 2000 Unigrit
3) wet sand opposite diagonal pattern from above with 3000.

IF you really want to make the buffing process easier have you considered machine sanding or even hand sanding with 3M Trizact #5000?

You actually restore gloss or reflective sheen after sanding with #5000 grit Trizact and then buffing with an orbital polisher will be even faster and easier with a higher chance of completely removing the sanding marks.

Also, The RUPES coarse blue foam pad while intended for the RUPES machine can be used on the Flex 3401 and it's one of my favorites for fast and effective defect removal.

Most people that FEEL the coarseness of the foam are astonished. Still real safe though at least compared to a wool pad on a rotary.

Story about this pad here,

Mind Blowing - Rupes Blue Foam Cutting Pad and Zephir Gloss Coarse Gel Compound

The hybrid orange pads are aggressive too but the RUPES blue are more aggressive so faster cutting when using an orbital polisher.

[11RaceRedGT]

Mike - Thanks for the advice. I recently bought your book and read it. I hope i can get down there for some of your training too someday! I am in the Pacific Northwest so am at the farthest opposite corner of the country!

This has been a fun build and it's satisfying to see the vision come together. It is an important project as it was my Dad's car that he acquired in 1969. Being in the body and paint business all his life, he always wanted to build it, but never had time or money while raising a family. By the time he retired and had the time, he was diagnosed with Parkinsons. He was going to sell the car, but I convinced him to build it together. He is such a wealth of knowledge and although it is difficult for him, he still has the skill and took care of most all of the metal work. He almost 80 now and I want him to enjoy the car before its too late.

Regarding age of paint, it is right at a month old. I painted on Oct 8 and it sat for a few weeks before starting sanding. So it is right at a month old, but I still want to be careful. I will stay away from IPA for now.

Thanks again Mike!

[cardaddy]

Cardaddy - thanks for the definition of "IPA". My mind went directly to Indian Pale Ale...go figure

I have read about using a DA with discs to wet sand. I am really apprehensive to try that. I have a better comfort level hand sanding with a DuraBlock. Model A's have very little areas that are flat. Mostly all compound curved panels and raised features at body lines. Also, the clear layed out really nice, so the orange peel is not excessive. It is smoother that the factory finish on my 2011 Mustang!

I ordered some Hybrid Pads and Menzerna products lat night before the sale ended. I will hold off with any further paint work until those arrive.

Wow, such a wealth of knowledge here and helpful people. Its nice to be on a forum where one isn't criticized for posting questions.

I know it's a little thing... but never got your name, did we?

Ahhh... thought of something else.

You mentioned you used a high solids clear, which made me remember I've seen that lately. Todd@Rupes posted a thread recently http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...on-charts.html in which he has charts for various Rupes compounds and pads with various paints.

The first one (below) doesn't really specify OEM or not. But the one below that one does.

Just thought the thread might be a good read if nothing else.



All that aside, I see you went ahead and ordered some Menzerna products. You'll love them! I'm a lifetime Meguiar's guy, used that stuff with my first car in 73, which back then were DAT products. Then a few years ago I wanted to go to nothing but SMAT and tried (in vain) to stay on that path. That's when I ended up also ordering more and more Menzerna products.

If there is something you need to finish, and Megs or Menz can't cover it... it DOESN'T NEED finishing! Might want to check though on which products are "body shop safe" as some of them are not.


Funny story, about the dangers of silicone in a body shop environment. I used to own a hi-line flatbed towing business, (for 18 years) and was at one of my customers shops one day and they had a guy washing cars for them, said he's worked in body shops before. Come to find out he was using a aerosol silicone tire shine on every car he washed. The paint shop was about 100 yards from the body shop (where the wash bay was), and the painter was in the office just raising heck about fisheyes. He'd painted three cars that day, all ended up with fisheyes. Day before, two with fisheyes.

I said, "Hey, you've got a new guy washing cars out there, think I'll throw him $20 to do a quick wash on my rollback", then I went out there and drove the truck over to the guy. I saw he had a case of ZEP tire shine, which I KNEW was silicone based! Went running up to the office to get the manager (a friend of mine) with a can in hand. They fired the guy on the spot! Figured firing him was better than letting the painter get ahold of him, because HE was going to beat him senseless!

On the machine sanding thing. I'm not from a shop environment, so I never really learned I guess you'd call it the 'right' way. I've done wet sanding by hand when I needed it here and there for years however, just haven't needed to cut and buff an entire new paint job straight from the booth. Then a while back the little Rupes Duetto came out, and the ability to sand with it was one of the selling points. I can say I've sanded with it a number of times, and it works great, couldn't ask for more, or for something any easier.

There were some Duetto kits way back when that had some discs with the kit. They last pretty well when you're just doing spot work like I need from time to time.

From Rupes:
RUPES is proud to announce the introduction of their X-Cut line of Foam Abrasive Sanding Discs.
The new X-Cut Sanding Discs are perfect for the removal of heavy defects, and finish down without leaving heavy pigtails like some abrasives tend to do.
X-Cut Sanding Discs were designed to be used with the RUPES LHR12E Duetto polisher, but can be used on any 125mm / 5" backing plate.
Available in P1500, P2000, and P3000 grits.

Old thread where Mike Phillips introduced them.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...000-p3000.html

I've never seen them for sale at Autogeek. They are available on Amazon (and other places) and run about $55~$60 for 20. Be careful where you look though because some places sell a 3-pack and the shipping is almost as much as the darned discs!

Here's one I spotted with a 2000 grit. It had a lot of damage on the quarter panel, as well as it was LOADED with holograms from a rotary.


Took just a few minutes to bring it back to life.


Appreciate your kind words to the members here. Thing is, if we don't ask questions... how are you/we supposed to learn anything. I know all to well how a lot of forums are and someone asks a question then next thing you know you see a dozen replies telling them to use the search function, rather than just telling them, or LINKING them the answer. Arrrrrggghhh that ticks me off!

I would say though that forum software makes searches a bit harder than they need to be. But,... (and it works for most any forum) if you do a Google search, then add +(whatever the forum name is) it'll come up with a lot of links. Like here for instance you might say "wet sanding with Flex 3401 +autogeek" and you'll get 7030 results with page after page linking direct to Autogeek forum threads.

Did want to say one more thing, not related to the work you're doing at all.

When I read the story about you and your Dad doing this together, it... well... I had to take a minute, (still do). Next June will be 10 years since I lost my Pop, (which was the same day Mom passed, only 3 years later), he was 92 and I miss him terribly to this day. I'd do ANYTHING to go back and just sit and have conversations with him that I never had. So many things we just never talked about. If I could... I'd ask him stupid questions that didn't relate to anything, just anything and everything that I'd thought from time to time about but never talked with him about.

I can just imagine once it's together, once she's ready for that first ride. I can see all the curves of that A Model (mentioned my father in law has a 29, just that his is all original).

I can picture it bright red, with just the right stance, looking low and mean, just shining like crazy in the sun. But the smile(s) on your faces will be brighter than any of that! That'll be a milestone moment in your life for sure! It'll be something that any son would want to share with their dad! You'll want family photos of that one for all the scrapbooks. That's a keeper there dude.

[11RaceRedGT]

Cardaddy - sorry to not mention my name. It is Bret. Yes, one "T". I was named after Bret Maverick. If you know the show, you know I'm old.

Thanks for the suggestion on how to search better. I was feeling a little dumb when you and others started providing links to threads concerning this topic. However, had I not put my question out there, I wouldn't have had some nice conversation from some great people will to help and not criticize!
Sorry about your parents. It's hard to see them getting old and I can only imagine how hard it is to not have them around. I am trying to make up for lost years with my dad by working with him on this project. That is actually the main goal with a nice hot rod as a bonus.
I will try and get some pics posted at some point. Thanks again.