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Thread: How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class

  1. #1
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class

    How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class


    At a recent detailing class here at Autogeek in Stuart, Florida, everyone that attended had the opportunity to learn how to remove orange peel by wet sanding the paint by machine. This included the entire process from start to finish working on a custom, 1963 Chevrolet Impala.

    Here are the steps taught in this class...

    Waterless & Rinseless Wash to clean exterior before sanding
    You must remove any loose dirt as a normal "best practice" before doing any other procedure, especially wet sanding. When it comes to classic cars, as a practice it's not a good idea to use a normal wash with lots of water running into areas you cannot dry as this can cause a potential rust problem.


    Removing above surface bonded contaminants
    For this project we used the Speedy Prep Surface Towels. After washing we inspected the paint and sure enough it has a rough, coarse texture. So before using high-end sanding discs it's faster and more cost effective to remove the contaminants before you sand.


    Tape off edges, raised body lines, trim and any other area that you want to protect
    The 1963 Impala has a raised body lines so we taped these off as well as edges between panels. Paint tends to be thinnest on edges and raised body lines so it's important not to sand over these areas.


    Measure paint thickness
    Before you do any work to a car it's important to measure the various body panels to get an idea of how thick or how thin the paint it. A paint thickness gauge is used as a "Big Picture Indicator" to help you make the "Go" or "No Go" decision for any paint correction process and especially when you're going to turn loose a group of people new to sanding and using rotary buffers on a custom car with a custom paint job.


    Machine sand to level orange peel and surface texture
    For this project we used 3M Trizact 3000 Sanding Discs with a variety of dual action polishers including,

    • 3M Orbital Air Sander
    • Porter Cable 7424XP
    • Meguiar's G110v2
    • Griot's 6" DA Polisher
    • Griot's 3" DA Polisher


    Compound paint using rotary buffers to remove sanding marks
    For this project we used Meguiar's M100 Pro Speed Compound with Lake Country 100% Wool Cutting pads and a variety of rotary buffers including,

    • Flex PE14 lightweight, compact rotary polisher
    • DeWALT 849X full size rotary buffer
    • Makita 9227 full size rotary buffer

    Polish paint using rotary buffers to remove holograms left by compound and wool pad fibers
    For this project we used the same rotary buffers but switched over the Meguiar's M205 Ultra Finish Polish and Lake Country Black CCS and Flat Foam Finishing Pads.


    Jewel paint to maximize gloss and clarity for a show car finish
    For this project we used the same rotary buffers plus Lake Country Gold Jewelling Pads and Menzerna SF 4500


    Machine wax to seal the paint
    For this project I shared tips and techniques on how to apply a show car finishing wax by hand just so everyone could see how to do this carefully and then shared how to use basic DA polishers like the Porter Cable, Meguiar's and Griot's DA Polishers to machine apply Max Wax a non-cleaning, show car wax.


    Now I'll let the pictures do the talking...


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  2. #2
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class

    Rinseless Wash and Waterless Wash
    First up we need to get the exterior clean. For most classic and antique vehicles I never personally wash them and recommend to others to avoid washing them. The reason for this is to avoid getting water/moisture into places you cannot get to in order to dry completely thus potentially creating a rust problem. This is especially true for any body-off-frame restorations where someone has already invested a lot of time and money removing any rust.

    Waterless and Rinseless Washing is the Trend
    Waterless and Rinseless Washing has been the trend for years now and will continue to be the trend into the foreseeable future. Inf fact look for the term Blue Gold to be used more as it relates to clean water supplies.


    To get the 1963 Chevy Impala clean we went over how to use both a Rinseless Wash and a Waterless Wash using products from the Detailer's Line. For this portion of the class I removed the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer from the Pad Washer Cart and placed a graduated 5-gallon bucket in it's place. With this set-up you don't have to bend over and you have a place to set your supply of clean microfiber towels and drying towels.





    Avoiding instilling swirls and scratches when doing a rinseless or waterless wash means using lots of microfiber towels. The idea being is after you get dirt particles onto a microfiber towel you either turn to a clean side, rinse in your rinseless wash bucket or switch to a clean towel. (Your choice)




    Rinseless Wash
    Quality microfiber towels are soft to your paint when you wipe polish and wax residue off the surface and in the same way are soft to your car's paint when used with a rinseless or waterless wash.




    In this demonstration I'm showing the extreme anal retentive way to clean the surface and that is to make two wipes with one towel and then retire the towel and start a new with a clean towel.




    Waterless Wash
    The key to using a waterless wash is to use the product liberally, that means use a LOT of product to hyper lubricate the surface.





    Hands-on Time
    Everyone gets with the program and gets this car washed and wiped clean...










    Done.
    Took us only a few minutes to get the clean and dry.


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  3. #3
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class

    How to use the Speedy Prep Surface Towel to Remove Above Surface Bonded Contaminants

    Now that we have the 1963 Impala SS clean and dry, it's time to learn how to use the Speedy Prep Surface Towel instead of detailing clay to remove any bonded contaminants off the paint.




    Speedy Prep Surface Towels ready to go to work!




    First I had a number of people do the Baggie Test to feel how contaminated the paint truly was. Here's Jeff feeling the paint.






    Next I spray some Detailer's Universal Clay Lubricant liberally onto the paint...





    Then using the towel folded 4-ways I rub it over a section of paint till I no longer hear any sound or feel any contaminants.








    The paint feels smooth as glass but I'm going to have Jeff check my work using the baggie test.









    The Speedy Prep Surface Towel works great for decontaminating paint and the feedback I received from everyone that had never used it before was overwhelmingly positive.



    Hands-on Training and Practice
    Now it's time for everyone to get busy and get the paint on this car decontaminated and as smooth as glass.













    And done!


    Now it's time to set-up for machine wetsanding...



    Mike Phillips
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  4. #4
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class

    Tape off edges, raised body lines, trim and any other area that you want to protect
    The 1963 Impala has a raised body lines so we taped these off as well as edges between panels. Paint tends to be thinnest on edges and raised body lines so it's important not to sand over these areas.










    Measure paint thickness
    Before you do any work to a car it's important to measure the various body panels to get an idea of how thick or how thin the paint it. A paint thickness gauge is used as a "Big Picture Indicator" to help you make the "Go" or "No Go" decision for any paint correction process and especially when you're going to turn loose a group of people new to sanding and using rotary buffers on a custom car with a custom paint job.





    Machine sand to level orange peel and surface texture
    For this project we used 3M Trizact 3000 Sanding Discs with a variety of dual action polishers including,

    • 3M Orbital Air Sander
    • Porter Cable 7424XP
    • Meguiar's G110v2
    • Griot's 6" DA Polisher
    • Griot's 3" DA Polisher










    Compound paint using rotary buffers to remove sanding marks
    For this project we used Meguiar's M100 Pro Speed Compound with Lake Country 100% Wool Cutting pads and a variety of rotary buffers including,

    • Flex PE14 lightweight, compact rotary polisher
    • DeWALT 849X full size rotary buffer
    • Makita 9227 full size rotary buffer

























    Mike Phillips
    Host - Competition Ready on Velocity Channel
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
    IDA Board Member
    CD-SV, RT
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    Click on a book to get your own copy.



  5. #5
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class

    Next is polishing paint using rotary buffers to remove holograms left by compound and wool pad fibers
    For this step we switched over the Meguiar's M205 Ultra Finish Polish and Lake Country Black CCS and Flat Foam Finishing Pads.
















    Next we jewelled paint to maximize gloss and clarity for a show car finish using rotary buffers
    For this project we used Lake Country Gold Jewelling Pads and Menzerna SF 4500


































    Mike Phillips
    Host - Competition Ready on Velocity Channel
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
    IDA Board Member
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  6. #6
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    Re: How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class

    Next we machine waxed the paint to seal it for protection while creating a high gloss, wet-looking shine that everyone loves
    For this project I shared tips and techniques on how to apply a show car finishing wax by hand just so everyone could see how to do this carefully and then shared how to use basic DA polishers like the Porter Cable, Meguiar's and Griot's DA Polishers to machine apply Max Wax a non-cleaning, show car wax.











    Applying paste wax to the face of a soft foam waxing pad on a DA polisher...










    Machine waxing enables you to lay down a thin, uniform layer of wax...







    Now it's time to carefully remove the wax using good technique and clean, soft microfiber towels folded 4-ways...







    And here's the final results...



















    For many of the people that attended this class, this was the first time they've


    Used a waterless wash and a rinseless wash
    Used the Speedy Prep Surface Towel
    Taped-off a car
    Measured paint thickness
    Machine sanded to remove orange peel plus horrendous holograms
    Machine compounded using wool pads on rotary buffers with an aggressive compound
    Machine polished using foam pads on rotary buffers
    Machine jewelled using foam pads on rotary buffers
    Machine applied a show car finishing wax


    My goal is with all my classes is not to make people experts because you become an expert over time through experience. Instead my goal is to teach the above basic skills and techniques for each of the procedures and most importantly, bring everyone's comfort level up to a higher level to give them the confidence to use these various procedures for all their future detailing projects.


    I teach a limited number of classes each year and I make the same promise to everyone at the beginning of the class and that is to pour my heart and soul into the class, (the class means the people), and literally do a brain dump.

    For more information on my next classes click the links below...

    Advanced Wetsanding & Polishing Classes - February 23rd & 24th - Limited to 8 people

    Exclusively focused on all aspects of polishing paint.


    Mike Phillips' Detailing Boot Camp - May 4th & 5th, 2013

    My bootcamp classes go over both interior detailing as well as exterior detailing.


    Both classes are fast paced and heavily hands-on. I guarantee you'll learn a lot and have a lot of fun plus you'll sleep well at the end of each class.


    Hope to see you at one of my next classes...


    Mike Phillips
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Chris@AutoCleanse's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class

    Excellent write up and pictures came out great.

  8. #8
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Italian Guy View Post
    Excellent write up and pictures came out great.

    Thanks Chris...

    Ray here at work was my cameraman and he did a great job.


    I like to create these threads to document the kind of projects we work on at our classes so others can see exactly what you get to do and what you get to work on at a class here at Autogeek.

    This was a good project and everyone that attended this class can now walk the walk and talk the talk.

    This isn't the first class like this here at autogeek and there are more coming up...


    Mike Phillips
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  9. #9
    Senior Member weeecho's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class

    hi there, i was wondering why did you don´t use flex 3401 with the 3M trizact system ?

  10. #10
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: How to remove orange peel by wet sanding - Advanced Detailing Class

    Quote Originally Posted by weeecho View Post
    hi there, i was wondering why did you don´t use flex 3401 with the 3M trizact system ?

    Great question!


    You know I've never tried using the Flex 3401 for dampsanding but my thoughts were it might be too aggressive. If it's too aggressive you could potentially remove too much paint to quickly. That's not a good thing for paint that normally trends on the thin side to start with except for custom applications.


    So... let's see if it works...


    Here's one of my black demo hoods and I've sanded it down using #3000 Trizact on a Flex 3401 using clean water with a drop or two of car wash soap.

    On the left I sanded at the 1 speed setting and on the right I sanded on the 6 speed setting




    Scalloping
    The arc looking pattern I call scalloping and this is where the sanding disc appears to be digging in or biting in deeper throughout the oscillation movement of the polisher.
    In person, the scalloping pattern looks deeper or more aggressive on the high speed side.

    Below on the right side of the panel is the section I sanded using the high speed setting.




    Below is the low speed side...






    Right side




    Left Side




    Below
    M101 Foam Cut Compound with a 6.5" LC Wool Cutting pad on a Flex PE14




    Below
    After cutting I re-polished using same tool and compound but switched to a 6.5" Hybrid pad.





    Results

    Question: Does the Flex 3401 work to machine wetsand?

    Answer: Yes.



    My comments...
    Would I use it to sand down a car? Not as long as I had a PC type DA Polisher available or a air powered orbital sander. Just too aggressive feeling for my risk taking level.


    Great question, glad you asked.



    Mike Phillips
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