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Thread: New to AG and Paint Correction

  1. #1
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    New to AG and Paint Correction

    Hello Guys/Girls,

    I am new to AG and paint correction, and wanted to seek some advice.

    Ordered my first orbital and pretty stoked on the results. Had the opportunity to test a spot using m105 and m205 using orange and white pad, the results were spectacular. I was always a car washer, sealant, then carnauba paste wax guy, but as soon as I made one pass on the above using the PC, I was blown away, literally! Sealant and wax always amazed me, however I wanted more and 105/205 brought back the clarity, smoothness, and metalic speckles on my paint back to original.

    Now the plan is tackling the car into sections, it is a used car and very well maintained, there are love marks (swirl marks) that arent too deep. The thing that bugs me is the water marks on the roof, I havent tried removing them as the test spot was the corner of the trunk, however what would be the best approach at this?

    I was successul with the results I wanted using m105 and m205 one pass, am I going to aggressive on the first try? Should I step down to a scratch or swirl remover product to see if the defects will go away? Luckily I have AG forum, youtube friends across the world, instagram local detailers, and Mike complete guide.

    Another recommendation I received was to try menzerna products as they have been proven to be easy to use so I ordered a set of compound 400, 2500, and 3500 to test another spot.

    My goal here is to do a proper paint correction, removing swirls/scratches (some being deeper), water marks left on the roof. And then coating it with the pinnacle surface coating. And lastly properly maintaining with a proper dual bucket wash, etc... The only problem that I am worried about is that I live in the city of Los Angeles, we have lots of airports, rails, marine, and horrible environment conditions that even correcting the paint and properly maintaining it will be a nightmare due to these conditions. The car is a daily driver.

    I plan to tackle quite a few of the work if not everything this weekend.

    Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Red Hawk's Avatar
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    Re: New to AG and Paint Correction

    I have always had good luck removing water spots with a clay bar. Remember, when you lay pad to paint, you are removing layers. Always use the least aggressive method & build up if necessary. Good luck in your ventures.
    dlc95 likes this.
    2002 Trans Am WS6 Navy Blue Metallic 2002 Trans Am Firehawk Red

  3. #3
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: New to AG and Paint Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by k20trick View Post

    Hello Guys/Girls,

    I am new to AG and paint correction, and wanted to seek some advice.
    Welcome to AutogeekOnline!


    Quote Originally Posted by k20trick View Post

    Ordered my first orbital and pretty stoked on the results. Had the opportunity to test a spot using m105 and m205 using orange and white pad, the results were spectacular. I was always a car washer, sealant, then carnauba paste wax guy, but as soon as I made one pass on the above using the PC, I was blown away, literally! Sealant and wax always amazed me, however I wanted more and 105/205 brought back the clarity, smoothness, and metalic speckles on my paint back to original.
    And just to comment... you could never get these kinds of results by hand...

    You can clean the paint surface by hand and you can apply a wax by hand but the average person doesn't possess the skill, muscle or technique to actually remove swirls and scratches by hand.



    Quote Originally Posted by k20trick View Post

    Now the plan is tackling the car into sections, it is a used car and very well maintained, there are love marks (swirl marks) that arent too deep. The thing that bugs me is the water marks on the roof, I havent tried removing them as the test spot was the corner of the trunk, however what would be the best approach at this?
    If you're using a PC or Porter Cable 7424XP then a couple of comments...


    First, water spots, especially Type II water spots and these are crater etchings where there's actually a kind of hole in the clearcoat, are the worst paint defect in my opinion to have to remove. IF they are only on the roof and the car is a DAILY DRIVER then I would recommend only improving them not trying to 100% remove them because to remove them you may end up removing a lot of the precious and THIN clearcoat.

    If the car is a daily driver then chances are they may just come back again, depends on where you park the car and where the source of the water spots originates.

    If you do want to remove them 100% then get a Lake Country ThinPro pad because they rotate GREAT on PC type tools and get the orange cutting pad to use with the M105. There is a gray cutting pad that is even more aggressive and we used it for just this purpose but be careful and the gray pads are SHARP and will cut fast.


    WE removed Type II Water Spots out of the basecoat/clearcoat paint job on this old 2-door Chevy. We tried using the ORANGE ThinPro pads but they were not aggressive enough so we switched to the GRAY.


    1955 Chevy Bel Air with a $15,000.00 Custom Paint Job - How to remove water spots







    Here's the owner Guy machine polishing for the first time on his $15,000.00 paint job on his incredible 1955 Bel Air





    Now everyone is getting busy...





    Guy and his buddy Jay















    I understand why people use Facebook but the fact is... you simply cannot share things like the above on FB. The interface just doesn't work so in my opinion, it doesn't work as well for teaching or learning. Just my own rant.



    To the OP - More information about our process in the actually write-up plus lots of great pictures. And note, the owner Guy is using a PC and this is his FIRST time machine polishing.


    1955 Chevy Bel Air with a $15,000.00 Custom Paint Job - How to remove water spots





    Quote Originally Posted by k20trick View Post

    and Mike complete guide.
    Thank you for your purchase and your trust.



    Quote Originally Posted by k20trick View Post

    Another recommendation I received was to try Menzerna products as they have been proven to be easy to use so I ordered a set of compound 400, 2500, and 3500 to test another spot.
    Menzerna makes great products and uses great abrasive technology. In my opinion and my experience, abrasive technology is the most important factor when polishing clearcoat paints.


    Quote Originally Posted by k20trick View Post

    My goal here is to do a proper paint correction, removing swirls/scratches (some being deeper), water marks left on the roof. And then coating it with the pinnacle surface coating. And lastly properly maintaining with a proper dual bucket wash, etc... The only problem that I am worried about is that I live in the city of Los Angeles, we have lots of airports, rails, marine, and horrible environment conditions that even correcting the paint and properly maintaining it will be a nightmare due to these conditions. The car is a daily driver.
    I love and use the Pinnacle Black Label Surface Coating on my wife's Mercedes-Benz with a perfect finish. For my own truck, a 1987 Silverado sitting on 40s, I use a one-step cleaner/wax because it is a daily driver.

    While I love how fast and easy the wife's MB washes and dries, and how the paint looks so glassy all of the time, Los Angeles is a very dirty area to live. I know, I taught detailing classes at Meguiar's in Irvine, California for 7 years. Tons of dirt and pollution in the air in LA.

    My recommendation is to find a great, light cutting one-step cleaner/wax and use it often. That's what I do and "most" of the time my truck looks great. I need to machine wax her right now, might even do it this week.



    Quote Originally Posted by k20trick View Post

    I plan to tackle quite a few of the work if not everything this weekend.

    Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

    Update this thread and let us know your status with this project.

    Are you working on a Chevy K20 truck?


    Mike Phillips
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    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
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    Click on a book to get your own copy.



  4. #4
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: New to AG and Paint Correction

    If you need the link, here it is... note these are for use with a 5" backing plate

    Lake Country ThinPro Foam Pad System 5.5 Inch




    Lots of tips, techniques and recommendations in this new video...


    Best video ever on how to machine buff a car from start to finish




    Mike Phillips
    Host - Competition Ready on Velocity Channel
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
    IDA Board Member
    CD-SV, RT
    Competition Ready Facebook Page
    Mike Phillips Facebook Page
    Twitter
    Instagram

    Click on a book to get your own copy.



  5. #5
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    Re: New to AG and Paint Correction

    Sounds like an ambitious weekend,best of luck & welcome to your new addiction.

  6. #6
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    Re: New to AG and Paint Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Welcome to AutogeekOnline!




    And just to comment... you could never get these kinds of results by hand...

    You can clean the paint surface by hand and you can apply a wax by hand but the average person doesn't possess the skill, muscle or technique to actually remove swirls and scratches by hand.





    If you're using a PC or Porter Cable 7424XP then a couple of comments...


    First, water spots, especially Type II water spots and these are crater etchings where there's actually a kind of hole in the clearcoat, are the worst paint defect in my opinion to have to remove. IF they are only on the roof and the car is a DAILY DRIVER then I would recommend only improving them not trying to 100% remove them because to remove them you may end up removing a lot of the precious and THIN clearcoat.

    If the car is a daily driver then chances are they may just come back again, depends on where you park the car and where the source of the water spots originates.

    If you do want to remove them 100% then get a Lake Country ThinPro pad because they rotate GREAT on PC type tools and get the orange cutting pad to use with the M105. There is a gray cutting pad that is even more aggressive and we used it for just this purpose but be careful and the gray pads are SHARP and will cut fast.


    WE removed Type II Water Spots out of the basecoat/clearcoat paint job on this old 2-door Chevy. We tried using the ORANGE ThinPro pads but they were not aggressive enough so we switched to the GRAY.


    1955 Chevy Bel Air with a $15,000.00 Custom Paint Job - How to remove water spots







    Here's the owner Guy machine polishing for the first time on his $15,000.00 paint job on his incredible 1955 Bel Air





    Now everyone is getting busy...





    Guy and his buddy Jay















    I understand why people use Facebook but the fact is... you simply cannot share things like the above on FB. The interface just doesn't work so in my opinion, it doesn't work as well for teaching or learning. Just my own rant.



    To the OP - More information about our process in the actually write-up plus lots of great pictures. And note, the owner Guy is using a PC and this is his FIRST time machine polishing.


    1955 Chevy Bel Air with a $15,000.00 Custom Paint Job - How to remove water spots







    Thank you for your purchase and your trust.





    Menzerna makes great products and uses great abrasive technology. In my opinion and my experience, abrasive technology is the most important factor when polishing clearcoat paints.




    I love and use the Pinnacle Black Label Surface Coating on my wife's Mercedes-Benz with a perfect finish. For my own truck, a 1987 Silverado sitting on 40s, I use a one-step cleaner/wax because it is a daily driver.

    While I love how fast and easy the wife's MB washes and dries, and how the paint looks so glassy all of the time, Los Angeles is a very dirty area to live. I know, I taught detailing classes at Meguiar's in Irvine, California for 7 years. Tons of dirt and pollution in the air in LA.

    My recommendation is to find a great, light cutting one-step cleaner/wax and use it often. That's what I do and "most" of the time my truck looks great. I need to machine wax her right now, might even do it this week.






    Update this thread and let us know your status with this project.

    Are you working on a Chevy K20 truck?



    Hey Mike, I do appreciate the detailed response, that was quite a good information to read and a lot of help. I really love your articles and the passion that you put into them. BTW, That is a fabulous Bel-Air!

    Just to follow up on a few things, I've actually invested in the Rupes during the past and have been playing around with it correcting little spots here and there for friends, it is a great machine and you can truly appreciate the quality in it. I really purchased it because I have few cars to buff out, and wanted to move out of the pc.

    Regarding the water spots, I left them alone at the diminished rate as you said. I noticed the spots were on the car when I purchased the car used, but didn't inspect it thoroughly and didn't expect much of it until I got it under a light looking at it at multiple angles which got me more depressed which is when I tried purchased the PC to remove them. I do want to go back at it and try to diminish them a little further problem is I think my paint has a factory defect. There are uniform divots across all of the painted areas and when corrected using a pc with 105/205 the scratches swirls were removed (few rids remained), the divots remanned and seemed like they were under the paint, I only did the trunk/roof/hood as they were in the worst condition. The paint feels smooth, but these divots pinholes that are even uniform and seem like they are under the paint are all across the whole paint system. I tried a small test spot moved up to the microfiber pads 105 and did two more passes and it did cut through a lot of them, but they still remained. At that point I called it quits because I didn't know how much paint I was removing and did not want to compromise the paint system. Why my paint has this issue I don't know. I buffed a another couple cars and they were flawless. For my car under the sun the paint looks brand new, but under the light a few inches away I can notice these divots.

    Do you know what they are and would you be able to advise if I should go further? Or should I just leave it as it because it the sun the flakes just pop out. I really want to go far with the car, problem is I don't know what the limit where I start jeopardizing the paint system. From a view from a Pro like you, I'm sure countless cars have been done whereas from my I like to work slower, but when I see gaining results I keep going because Ive never hit the limit before. And I think thats a problem a lot of beginners will face. Going past the point of no return.

    The car is a lexus with very soft paint. I don't have a k20 chevy truck, however I do have a heart for k20 engines that honda released back in the days.

    Sorry im not posting the picture right but in the pic below there are little pin holes in the paint system.

    By light cutting cleaner wax are you referring to something like meguiars quick detailer, hd speed, menzerna 3in1, or griots finishing sealant? That is actually great advice, but I want to make this one more show car and remove all the blemishes that came with the car

    The paint became super glossy and the flakes just pop out now, however I'm left with a million of these cratered pin holes that the swirls and scratches were hiding. This is without waxes or sealants just brought the car outside in the sun to check the progress.


    '

    YEs and LA is a very contaminated city, airports, railroads, pollutions, ocean, all within 5-10 miles of each other plus it seems like the streets are over crowded and the roads are very compact, its very congested..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New to AG and Paint Correction-img3282.jpg  

  7. #7
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    Re: New to AG and Paint Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitewater25 View Post
    Sounds like an ambitious weekend,best of luck & welcome to your new addiction.
    Thanks buddy! I actually professionally detail for friends and family as well. They never have to go to the car wash now. Weekly ONR' rinse less and xpress wax keeps them happy and their cars well maintained. I do plan to correct them and coat them, hopefully in 2017 I'll get to do a lot more paint correction because they don't tend to go back to the bad habits (automatic washes) after I shown them the pitfalls of how aggressive those washes are and the 2 year old shammys they still use to dry cars

  8. #8
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    Re: New to AG and Paint Correction

    What year is the Lexus? The paint is nice however the clear looks like it may have a problem.

  9. #9
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    Re: New to AG and Paint Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by wing commander View Post
    What year is the Lexus? The paint is nice however the clear looks like it may have a problem.
    It is a 2012... weird that the finish feels smooth as butter but the divots feels like it'll catch a fingernail looking like that. Still a drastic improvement the trunk was in horrible condition.

  10. #10
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    Re: New to AG and Paint Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by wing commander View Post
    What year is the Lexus? The paint is nice however the clear looks like it may have a problem.

    Hello, I also have a neighbor with the same car and his paint has the same issue except his is a lot more swirled out so the owner doesn't notice. I have to literally point it out to him with the right light. It seems like this is a toyota paint issue to me or the car was really neglected with the prior owner. I have also have a toyota that I buffed out and it looks immaculate and that car is 10 years older so there is definitely something going on with the paint.

    Ive noticed two other same cars and colors were buffed out by zmcgovern and detail miami however their pictures are from far away so you don't notice whats really going on with the paint as they have been glossed up by coatings/sealants/waxes and I'm not clear whether they had this issue or not.

    Not sure whats going on, Im not sure if I should leave it alone or go for another pass. I did two additional passes and it was noticeably better however without a thickness gauge im not sure how much paint I removed during the process. I will however order one soon and see if its acceptable paint left in that area and proceed.

    If anyone else can chime in please let me know.

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