How to wetsand to remove orange peel

[MitchLiving]

Mike as promised..

It isn't completely inline with your title here as the paint itself isn't antique.
This car was repainted as you can see with a single stage urethane orange (I forget the actual paint color)

As you can see from the pictures is there a considerable amount of orange peel in this single stage paint job. Besides the orange peel the car has a lot of dirt nubs in the paint which will have to be sanded out to be removed anyway.

Question to you Mike, For this Porsche newly pained car, what steps you think should be taken to get this car to a mirror finish by sanding..he WANTS all that orange peel removed to a mirror finish (if that is possible with single stage), since I have never sanded a single stage car before I don't know how similar it is to for a 2 stage base and clear system, which I have done and will be doing again tonight with my personal 2 stage car tonight.

I typically start with 1500grit to 2000-3000 grit than buff with the 2 stage paints that i've sanded and buffed out.

Another question Mike and towards anyone that want to help me with this whole topic. Because I am weekend warrior and not a "professional" detailer as a living and i've never done a sanding job for a customer before, what you think would be a good hourly rate to charge?

And by all means if you wish to list the things I will need to do this job I am all for a list so I know at least I am going the right direction with the products. I already have a GG Polisher and an array of pads (Microfiber pads) and of course MF Towels.. He wants the job done by hand, I don't think he is keen on the idea of a machine spinning on his car paint...

Thank you VERY much for your time Mike.
What is your advice for this car from the pictures that you see.
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[sproketser]

Great job on the Porsche MitchLiving .

[MitchLiving]

Great job on the Porsche MitchLiving .

Oh, we didn't touch it yet it's why I am here hoping to make it look like orange glass ...lol

[sproketser]

Oh, we didn't touch it yet it's why I am here hoping to make it look like orange glass ...lol

lol , that would be great ! lol

[Mike Phillips]

Mike as promised..

It isn't completely inline with your title here as the paint itself isn't antique.
This car was repainted as you can see with a single stage urethane orange (I forget the actual paint color)

No problemo but instead of tagging this project onto my thread for restoring antique single stage paint it would be better as it's own dedicated thread. So I moved your posts and the follow-up posts out of my thread for restoring antique single stage paint and created for you your own dedicated thread.

As you can see from the pictures is there a considerable amount of orange peel in this single stage paint job. Besides the orange peel the car has a lot of dirt nubs in the paint which will have to be sanded out to be removed anyway.

Question to you Mike, For this Porsche newly painted car, what steps you think should be taken to get this car to a mirror finish by sanding..

he WANTS all that orange peel removed to a mirror finish
(if that is possible with single stage),

I've met a lot of people in my life that wanted 100 percent of the orange peel removed via sanding and buffing but they were not willing to pay what it would cost to do the job right.

To start with, in my opinion this type of work is only done right by starting with the highest quality sanding papers and sanding discs and these products are not cheap.


Here's something I wrote a few years ago, you can quote me on it....

Sanding is easy, that's putting scratches into the paint. The tricky part is getting the 100 percent out.

Sanding is easy, being careful is time consuming. Buffing out all the sanding marks without making a mistake, (burning through a raised body line or an edge), is also time consuming because you have to be careful. It's also a good idea to tape off any edges or raised body lines with 3M blue vinyl tape.

For compounding you only want to use a top shelf compound with a wool pad and a rotary buffer. Then follow this with a top shelf polish with a foam pad on a dual action polisher. Then after 30 days air cure seal the paint with a wax, sealant or coating.

Taking on a project that includes sanding all the way through to the last step of wiping off the wax is a HUGE undertaking. I applaud anyone that takes on this type of project but before you start make sure you're happy with the reward be it financial or a labor of love.

If doing this is a favor to a friend I'd still hope the friend would be willing to pay for the necessary products to do the job right.

since I have never sanded a single stage car before I don't know how similar it is to for a 2 stage base and clear system, which I have done and will be doing again tonight with my personal 2 stage car tonight.

I typically start with 1500grit to 2000-3000 grit than buff with the 2 stage paints that i've sanded and buffed out.

You sand single stage paint the same way you sand and buff basecoat/clearcoat paints.

Another question Mike and towards anyone that want to help me with this whole topic. Because I am weekend warrior and not a "professional" detailer as a living and i've never done a sanding job for a customer before, what you think would be a good hourly rate to charge?

As much as you can. I'd aim for $50.00 to $60.00 an hour minimum and up to $80.00 per hour would be fair as long as you're working hard and fast as you can and also work safely.


I timed myself to wetsand, cut and buff a car and actually made a time-lapse video of the process. It took me approximately 12 from start to finish and I would NEVER recommend anyone trying to do this job this fast. I had to as I didn't have any more time to use for this project.


Here's the link to that video and I also share my process that you could follow for this car.


How to wet sand a car - Time Lapse Video

And by all means if you wish to list the things I will need to do this job I am all for a list so I know at least I am going the right direction with the products. I already have a GG Polisher and an array of pads (Microfiber pads) and of course MF Towels.. He wants the job done by hand, I don't think he is keen on the idea of a machine spinning on his car paint...

He doesn't understand anything about wetsanding and buffing out paint if he thinks this can be done by hand.


A LOT of people have purchased and read Renny Doyle's book, How to start a home-based car detailing business, perhaps you have read it?


I have 3-4 sections in his book as a guest contributor and on pages 124 and 125 I talked about the learned art of turning work down. The reason why is because it's too simple to fall into the trap of taking on every job you're offered. Instead, I teach people the art of cherry picking, that is pick the best jobs, the profitable jobs and let someone else have the unrewarding jobs.

There's a lot of orange peel in the paint on this Porsche. It's going to take a lot of time and CARE to sand the paint flat and then buff out your sanding marks and never make a mistake.

Care = You focusing on the task at hand. This is just as draining as physical work is draining.


The customer in my opinion doesn't have real world expectations if he thinks this type of work is all done by hand. That's the FIRST red flag to go up and make me want to walk away from this job.

You can do as you please but my guess is if you take this job on you're going to end up regretting it unless you are paid generously.

Thank you VERY much for your time Mike.

I don't know if anything I wrote above is actually going to help. I'm serous when I say a red flag goes up when the owner thinks this type of work is done without a machine.

You couldn't pay me enough to remove sanding marks out of a urethane paint job by hand. Can it be done? You bet look at these pictures and note how my hand is moving at light speed and I was also pushing very hard while rubbing out these sanding marks by hand.






The above pictures taken from my article here,

The Rule of Thumb



So can it be done by hand? Yes. Would I do it by hand? No.


Share the link to this thread with the owner. Then you and him discuss this project. There's lots of guys out there that will wetsand, cut and buff a car, many that don't get on forums like this. At least you're savvy enough to come to this forum and share this project. That shows me you're already way ahead of the crowd.

[MitchLiving]

Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

I don't know if anything I wrote above is actually going to help. I'm serous when I say a red flag goes up when the owner thinks this type of work is done without a machine.

You couldn't pay me enough to remove sanding marks out of a urethane paint job by hand. Can it be done? You bet look at these pictures and note how my hand is moving at light speed and I was also pushing very hard while rubbing out these sanding marks by hand.

The fact you you moved my thread to make it dedicated and answered all my questions with brutal honesty, you surly have helped.

Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

If doing this is a favor to a friend I'd still hope the friend would be willing to pay for the necessary products to do the job right.

I want to call this a learning process / favor (with pay), I had explained I typically is a tough job and he understands from what I have explained how time consuming it can be. I've sent him the link to this thread and hoping he will join in on the learning process and we both can make the best decisions from here forward that will give him the desired results.

Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

You couldn't pay me enough to remove sanding marks out of a urethane paint job by hand. Can it be done? You bet look at these pictures and note how my hand is moving at light speed and I was also pushing very hard while rubbing out these sanding marks by hand.

Come on Mike, we all have a price lol , But that is one of the first thing I mentioned was doing this by machine and I understood his reservations of this method as it does sound scary and super aggressive. To your point on the hand sanding, I started to hand sand my 07' Max by hand.. I did half the deck lid (Came out GREAT) Factory OEM clear Scary I know, its my car so I am willing to take the risk....and I am now ordering Trizact sanding D/A pads as a result on how long it took me just to do half my deck lid, lol.. And oh boy, they are pricy!!!, one thing I've learned with sanding, you honestly can't go slow enough to make sure no mistakes are made which makes the process it self VERY long and tedious.


Thank you VERY much for your advice, I will certainly pass this link off to him and we will go over what we need to do next, and of course, I will up date this thread every time my hands touch that car to keep the community updated.

[Rsurfer]

Mike, after seeing that time lapse video, I vote that Bob gets you a lift for your garage.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike, after seeing that time lapse video, I vote that Bob gets you a lift for your garage.

We've considered a lift in the past and are considering a lift now for the future.

The issue is that our garage is also a TV and video studio and any lift that goes into the garage has to be one that we can move in or out of the garage depending upon what we're doing.


But yeah, I'm all for a lift. My favorite customers have lifts.

[Rsurfer]

We've considered a lift in the past and are considering a lift now for the future.

The issue is that our garage is also a TV and video studio and any lift that goes into the garage has to be one that we can move in or out of the garage depending upon what we're doing.


But yeah, I'm all for a lift. My favorite customers have lifts.

Solution to the problem is knock down a wall and get a bigger garage. LOL!

[jimbeaux911]

OK so the porsche 914 is my car, and I asked Mith if he would be willing to work on it for/with me. I have done all of the bodywork and painted the car. The car was orignally lime green, the PO painted it black and it was not done well. I decided to make it orange which is an original color for that model. The car was comletly sanded down by hand, and all dents and dings addressed without the use of bodyfiller. It was primed, and guidecoated, and sanded several times until smooth. then painted. A single stage paint was chosen due to the age of the car, and original paint would have been single stage.

I am uncomfortable with allowing anyone to sand it down with a machine at this point in time. I asked Mitch if he didnt mind, that we sand the orange peel out by hand, I prefer hand sanding to machine at this point mainly due to the feedback one gets when handsanding. You know when it is smooth instantly.

After sanding, I understand the best way to apply the smooth finish will be with a machine.

so perhaps the red flag concern about the owner can be changed to yellow?