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  1. #1
    Mike Phillips
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    Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

    Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?



    Yesterday our forum member weecho asked in my thread here,


    Quote Originally Posted by weeecho View Post

    hi there, i was wondering why did you don´t use flex 3401 with the 3M trizact system ?

    Because that question comes up from time to time I wrote my answer to him in a way it could also be used as a standalone article...


    So for anyone that's ever wondered the same question... here you go...


    Great question!


    You know I've never tried using the Flex 3401 for dampsanding but my thoughts were it might be too aggressive. If it's too aggressive you could potentially remove too much paint to quickly. That's not a good thing for paint that normally trends on the thin side to start with except for custom applications.


    So... let's see if it works...


    Here's one of my black demo hoods and I've sanded it down using #3000 Trizact on a Flex 3401 using clean water with a drop or two of car wash soap.

    On the left I sanded at the 1 speed setting and on the right I sanded on the 6 speed setting




    Scalloping
    The arc looking pattern I call scalloping and this is where the sanding disc appears to be digging in or biting in deeper throughout the oscillation movement of the polisher.
    In person, the scalloping pattern looks deeper or more aggressive on the high speed side.

    Below on the right side of the panel is the section I sanded using the high speed setting.




    Below is the low speed side...






    Right side




    Left Side




    Below
    M101 Foam Cut Compound with a 6.5" LC Wool Cutting pad on a Flex PE14




    Below
    After cutting I re-polished using same tool and compound but switched to a 6.5" Hybrid pad.





    Results

    Question: Does the Flex 3401 work to machine wetsand?

    Answer: Yes.



    My comments...
    Would I use it to sand down a car? Not as long as I had a PC type DA Polisher available or a air powered orbital sander. Just too aggressive feeling for my risk taking level.


    Great question, glad you asked.




  2. #2
    Super Member FUNX650's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

    Thanks for this article Mike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand? ~ weecho


    Question: Does the Flex 3401 work to machine wetsand?

    Answer: Yes.



    My comments...
    Would I use it to sand down a car? Not as long as I had a PC type DA Polisher available or a air powered orbital sander. Just too aggressive feeling for my risk taking level.
    Question:

    Except for, as you say:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    ...custom applications.
    Would you still not ever "wet-sand" a factory baked-on BC/CC paint system...
    No matter the available "type of polisher"?

    Thanks.



    Bob
    "Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."
    ~Joaquin de Setanti

  3. #3
    Super Member RLucky82's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

    Quote Originally Posted by FUNX725 View Post
    Thanks for this article Mike.


    Question:

    Except for, as you say:


    Would you still not ever "wet-sand" a factory baked-on BC/CC paint system...
    No matter the available "type of polisher"?

    Thanks.



    Bob
    I'm betting he would use a paint thickness gauge before he makes considerations to which tool and/or if any tool can be used for sanding on any given paint system.

  4. #4
    Super Member FUNX650's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

    Quote Originally Posted by RLucky82 View Post
    I'm betting he would use a paint thickness gauge before he makes considerations to which tool and/or if any tool can be used for sanding on any given paint system.
    I'm betting that:

    Irregardless of the: EPTG-readings, on any (all) given factory-paint-kitchen: applied & cured BC/CC paint-system...
    Mr. Phillips will say (and I'll paraphrase):


    'NO...I'll leave that wet-sanding task to someone else'!


    Here's hoping Mike will chime in!




    Bob
    "Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."
    ~Joaquin de Setanti

  5. #5
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

    Quote Originally Posted by FUNX725 View Post
    Thanks for this article Mike.


    Question:

    Except for, as you say:


    Would you still not ever "wet-sand" a factory baked-on BC/CC paint system...
    No matter the available "type of polisher"?

    Thanks.



    Bob

    If I read you're question right the answer is "no".

    A factory finish is too thin to use what in my opinion would be too aggressive of a sander. I'm not even comfortable sanding factory finishes with less aggressive tools. Besides the risk involved you want as much clear on your car as possible to hold up over the service life of the car.

    As for custom applications... that would be like the Cutlass I sanded down last weekend where they sprayed plenty of clear to start with and then I sanded it to flatten the initial paint down in preparation for more paint. That's the custom application I was talking about.

    Even still, I would prefer to use a less aggressive tool.



  6. #6
    Super Member rmagnus's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

    Interesting. I don't think I would have ever considered wet sanding with a 3401. At low speed it appeared to do a very good job. Somebody is thinking outside the box.

    Thanks for the demonstration Mike.

  7. #7
    Super Member FUNX650's Avatar
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    Re: Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    If I read you're question right the answer is "no".

    A factory finish is too thin to use what in my opinion would be too aggressive of a sander. I'm not even comfortable sanding factory finishes with less aggressive tools. Besides the risk involved you want as much clear on your car as possible to hold up over the service life of the car.

    As for custom applications... that would be like the Cutlass I sanded down last weekend where they sprayed plenty of clear to start with and then I sanded it to flatten the initial paint down in preparation for more paint. That's the custom application I was talking about.

    Even still, I would prefer to use a less aggressive tool.


    Thanks, Mike, for your response...

    I can honestly say that I am more than pleased
    with what I have read in your above post!



    Bob
    "Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."
    ~Joaquin de Setanti

  8. #8
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    Re: Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

    Thanks for the review Mike

    I have one question though.

    I have a friend having a Land Rover Challenger. He had it resprayed in December last and it's full of orange peel, dust nibs, dips and runs. He wanted to have the paint corrected on his truck.

    I asked him to wait 3 - 4 months. Now i'm in school holidays for 2 weeks. I want to correct it before school resumes.

    I'd like to know whether on resprayed panels, dampsanding with the Flex will be less riskier?

    I've heard that here in Mauritius Abralon pads are available. if I proceed, it will be 2000, (then 3000 if needed ) and 4000 grit on speed 1.

    What would be your thoughts on this?

    (To add, I have Carpro denim and velvet pads in my order, just waiting for some friends who will add their products detailing-wise to save on shipping)

    many thanks

    Zaid

  9. #9
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

    Quote Originally Posted by zckid View Post

    I'd like to know whether on resprayed panels, dampsanding with the Flex will be less riskier?

    I've heard that here in Mauritius Abralon pads are available. if I proceed, it will be 2000, (then 3000 if needed ) and 4000 grit on speed 1.

    What would be your thoughts on this?


    many thanks

    Zaid

    My thoughts are the same as I posted above for Trizact or Meguiar's Unigrit discs and that is,

    Will the Flex 3401 work to machine wetsand?

    "yes"


    Would I do it? Not if I can get my hands on any other type of DA Polisher, electric or air powered.

    The forced rotation, 8mm stroke scallops the paint like I show in the pictures above. This means it's taking paint off un-evenly.

    If you know for a fact that the painter is going to put on extra paint so you have PLENTY OF FILM BUILD to work with then go for it.

    If I were in your shoes and I knew for a fact I had a lot of film build I'd much rather prefer to machine sand than hand sand. The #3000 and #4000 Abralon will be pretty safe for sure. It's the lower grit discs with thin paint I would be cautious with...

    And keep in mind...

    • Sanding, multiple times, removes paint.
    • Compounding remove paint
    • Polishing remove paint


    What you don't want to do is encounter a whoops! at anytime time during any of the above steps...


    Good luck and start a new/dedicated thread with your results and some pictures.



  10. #10
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    Re: Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    My thoughts are the same as I posted above for Trizact or Meguiar's Unigrit discs and that is,

    Will the Flex 3401 work to machine wetsand?

    "yes"


    Would I do it? Not if I can get my hands on any other type of DA Polisher, electric or air powered.

    The forced rotation, 8mm stroke scallops the paint like I show in the pictures above. This means it's taking paint off un-evenly.

    If you know for a fact that the painter is going to put on extra paint so you have PLENTY OF FILM BUILD to work with then go for it.

    If I were in your shoes and I knew for a fact I had a lot of film build I'd much rather prefer to machine sand than hand sand. The #3000 and #4000 Abralon will be pretty safe for sure. It's the lower grit discs with thin paint I would be cautious with...

    And keep in mind...

    • Sanding, multiple times, removes paint.
    • Compounding remove paint
    • Polishing remove paint


    What you don't want to do is encounter a whoops! at anytime time during any of the above steps...


    Good luck and start a new/dedicated thread with your results and some pictures.


    thanks a lot for your kind reply and detailed explanation Mike

    I've used the Carpro denim pads, not really as Todd's mazda. Still trying to get myself comfortable with these pads (steep learning curve)

    but what i did is to wetsand by hand, use the carpro pads to remove the sanding marks, ensure that no tracers are left.

    will get a DA soon, God willing. and go the Abralon route

    Here are a few shots:









    thanks again Mike

    cheers
    Zaid

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