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  1. #51
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins

    Quote Originally Posted by StuDLei View Post

    This wouldn't be considered rocket science either, but what's your opinion here Mike:

    I see that you removed about .1 mils of paint in your swirl remover step with a yellow pad. Would it be fair to say that 105 and an orange pad would remove about the same amount of paint?
    I know it can be confusing to know what category an abrasive product falls into because there is no industry standard for labeling products. That said,

    M105 is an aggressive compound. By this I mean it has the ability and potential to remove a lot of paint quickly even though "yes" I know it's SMAT and feels like Jergen's hand lotion.

    Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover on the other hand is a Medium Cut Polish. It's not near as aggressive as ANY aggressive compound nor does it have the same potential for removing paint.

    So I believe M105 with a orange foam cutting pad actually has a greater ability and potential to remove more paint or film-build than I did with Total Swirl Remover.

    Keep in mind... Top Coat Hardness is an Unknown Variable and a huge factor when discussing the abrading of paint in any fashion.

    The paint I'm working on and the paint you're working on can be very different in their hardness factor and that makes comparisons more difficult.



    Quote Originally Posted by StuDLei View Post

    If you do in fact remove about .1 mils of paint in a compounding process, and you can safely remove .5 mils, would it be fair to say as a rough estimate that you could 105/205 your car about five times in its life?
    Good generalization. Of course this assumes you're working on a car that no one else has ever abraded, including the dealership before you took possession of the car.

    So many variables... that's why I try to not get to caught up into the minutia of detailing and always focus on the most important aspects like,

    "Use the least aggressive products to get the job done"

    After you've restored a car's finish, start doing the things you can do to avoid re-inflicting swirls and scratches back into the paint so you don't have to continually compound or use medium cut compounds.




    Quote Originally Posted by StuDLei View Post
    Everyone always wants to know how many times you can buff your car before you should start worrying, at least newbies like myself, so I wondered what your thoughts were on this?

    Thanks.

    Sorry I just now found this post and replied to it... see the last paragraph I wrote above...


    Mike Phillips
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  2. #52
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins

    Quote Originally Posted by Countersteer46 View Post

    A couple people have already said it, this is the best article on AG in my opinion!

    This one is a close second:

    http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...ge-paints.html

    Thank you...



    Quote Originally Posted by Countersteer46 View Post

    A couple questions, if I could.

    First, I don't believe I've come across in these articles a recommendation for pressure or force for wet sanding. I was wondering how much force you would use on the pad? Also, would it change for different grits?

    Good question...

    First, be sure to read through this article on the basics of hand sanding...

    Basic Hand Sanding Techniques






    Second, as far as pressure goes, you actually want to use light but even pressure over the distance of your arm stroke, whether it's a long or short stroke.

    A quality paper like the Nikken cuts fast with light pressure because of the design of the abrasives on the paper and leaves a VERY uniform sanding mark pattern.

    I tend to avoid sanding with other papers when hand sanding but the same thing would apply.

    Heavy pressure will remove paint faster and you can certainly use heavy pressure if you are VERY confident of how thick the paint is you're sanding but be careful as with heavy pressure you can instill deep Tracers and these are a real paint to remove and increase the risk of removing too much paint.


    Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring



    This is why I also try to always machine sand everything I can...

    Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips



    Quote Originally Posted by Countersteer46 View Post


    Secondly, as mentioned by Mike, these results are amazing for a yellow foam pad and a Swirl Remover.

    If I were to also be wet sanding factory paint that would be finished with 3000 grit, then compounded with a rotary, wool pad and 3M perfect it 06085, could I try to switch to a DA on the second correction step? Thanks for the info!

    You should be able to switch to a DA easily after the first rotary buffer step as long as you're using a quality compound for the first step.

    If you do this type of work right, the only thing left in the paint after the first step are the swirls caused by the fibers from the wool pad and any compounding abrasives...

    Both should be low swirl or more accurately, SHALLOW swirl that is easily buffed out with a DA polisher.


    Great questions...


    Check out this write-up, we compounded and then used a jeweling polish to finish out I believe...

    1965 Mustang GT Fastback - Wetsanding - Live Broadcast



    Mike Phillips
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  3. #53
    Senior Member StuDLei's Avatar
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    Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    I know it can be confusing to know what category an abrasive product falls into because there is no industry standard for labeling products. That said,

    M105 is an aggressive compound. By this I mean it has the ability and potential to remove a lot of paint quickly even though "yes" I know it's SMAT and feels like Jergen's hand lotion.

    Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover on the other hand is a Medium Cut Polish. It's not near as aggressive as ANY aggressive compound nor does it have the same potential for removing paint.

    So I believe M105 with a orange foam cutting pad actually has a greater ability and potential to remove more paint or film-build than I did with Total Swirl Remover.

    Keep in mind... Top Coat Hardness is an Unknown Variable and a huge factor when discussing the abrading of paint in any fashion.

    The paint I'm working on and the paint you're working on can be very different in their hardness factor and that makes comparisons more difficult.





    Good generalization. Of course this assumes you're working on a car that no one else has ever abraded, including the dealership before you took possession of the car.

    So many variables... that's why I try to not get to caught up into the minutia of detailing and always focus on the most important aspects like,

    "Use the least aggressive products to get the job done"

    After you've restored a car's finish, start doing the things you can do to avoid re-inflicting swirls and scratches back into the paint so you don't have to continually compound or use medium cut compounds.







    Sorry I just now found this post and replied to it... see the last paragraph I wrote above...


    Mike, I stopped visiting these forums around the time I wrote that post. I've been back here for a few days now ('tis the season for detailing) and happened to see that you replied to this. I was shocked when I read the date. Perfect timing!

    I got my paint back to flawless (as possible) last fall and I've tried to keep it that way as best I could. I'm still learning. There were a few times I ONR'ed my car when I should've washed it with a pressure washer first. Also, I've come to the realization that anytime it rains, you pretty much have to wash your car quickly because water spots are imminent. I have water spots all over the car. They're very faint, but they don't wash off. Yesterday I went over a spot, a test spot, with SF4500 and a black pad with my Flex and it took them out. Now, when I get the chance I know I can hit my whole car and get it back to perfect while taking off hardly any clear coat paint.

    Any suggestions for Flex guys that need to hit small areas? I really wish I could buy a 3 inch or less backing plate for it, but they don't make one right? I polished the A pillars and other areas with my 6.5 inch pads but it was less than fun. Is it easy enough to do these areas by hand? Any suggestions here?


    Thanks for all your help again. You truly are an awesome individual.
    Thank you Autogeekers!


  4. #54
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins

    Quote Originally Posted by StuDLei View Post

    Also, I've come to the realization that anytime it rains, you pretty much have to wash your car quickly because water spots are imminent.
    Agreed and the more flawless the condition of the paint the more even the slightest little defect will show up.

    Since we did the extreme makeover on my own truck, I've been very good and wiping the truck down every day and sometimes every other day, using some type of spray detailer or spray wax. The results is my truck's paint always looks great, as though it was just waxed. Article on this topic coming soon...



    Quote Originally Posted by StuDLei View Post

    Any suggestions for Flex guys that need to hit small areas? I really wish I could buy a 3 inch or less backing plate for it, but they don't make one right? I polished the A pillars and other areas with my 6.5 inch pads but it was less than fun.

    Is it easy enough to do these areas by hand? Any suggestions here?

    A-pillars are in all most all cases best done by hand. Kind of depends though how wide the painted portion is and what's on the side of the paint. Some cars have plastic, vinyl or rubber trim/gaskets right next to the paint and if you creme these over with polish they can stain white.

    I'm am the number #1 proponent of the 4" Lake Country Backing Plate and the 5" Hybrid Pads for use with the Flex 3401.

    New 5" pads for 4" Backing Plate on Flex 3401



    5" Hybrid Pads for the 4" backing plate on the Flex 3401!





    I ALWAYS have half the Flex 3401's in the studio set up like above and the other half set-up with the factory 5.5" backing plates for 6.5" p-ds.

    Good combo for sure...


    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
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  5. #55
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    Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins

    Extremely informative. I printed this off. Thanks.
    -Ken

  6. #56
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_Clark View Post

    Extremely informative. I printed this off.

    Thanks.

    -Ken

    No problemo...

    That's probably a lot of printing...


    :D
    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
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