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  1. #11
    Senior Member Kamakaz1961's Avatar
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    Re: 1st time machine compounding, a bit disappointed

    Quote Originally Posted by garberfc View Post
    Thanks for the reply @Kamakaz1961. Is this the product you're referring to? I see the Menzerna line of products include a 3000, 2000, 1000 etc product. Does the number somehow relate to the grittiness of the product?
    Menzerna FG400 and Super Finish 3500 should be the combo! I hope it works! KEEP ON ROCKING! BTW that is the combo I use to much success!
    CJ
    2013 Mustang GT w/Track Pack 6-Speed Manual
    Save the Manual!

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  3. #12
    Senior Member Belo's Avatar
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    Re: 1st time machine compounding, a bit disappointed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamakaz1961 View Post
    I would look into a different type of compound. I use Menzerna FG400 and it works wonders. I have tried other brand compounds and they were doggie doo doo. I have not worked with Turtle Wax and have no clue if it's good or not. But if you are having an issue you may look into that. I can't comment on your technique as that also could be an issue. But BASED on your comment, you might look at a better product.
    when i first got a porter cable I had these dreams that all my scratches would disappear. Obviously this isn't the case, but with 400 I too saw small scratches disappear and the deeper ones lighten up some.
    2009 Pontiac G8GT
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  4. #13
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    Re: 1st time machine compounding, a bit disappointed

    Quote Originally Posted by garberfc View Post
    I found this handy chart on the AutoGeek.net site. Apparently the HCXXX does NOT represent the grit, as the HC1000 has a heavier cut than the HC300.
    The HC1000 has 9/10 cut and only 3/10 in finishing while the HC400 (old fg400) has 8/10 cut and 8/10 in finishing. Then the SHC300 has 10/10 cut and 6/10 in finishing. With SHC300 and HC400 you can cause of the finishing you get from them jump to the SF3500 finishing polish to clean up any haze and still get a very high gloss in 2 steps. When you compounding with HC1000 you will have to do one more step with a medium cut polish and finishing with a finishing polish. Some with rotary polishers is still useing these 3 steps polishing. If you would start with Menzerna and use their better abrasive technology I would go with HC400 and PF2500 and SF3500. And if only 2 polishes the HC400 and SF3500.

    Then get you pads so you have enough with them 5-8 in each color of choice exept for the LSP/ wax pad where 2 is often enough. Get you some pads that are made for longthrow polishers. As longthrow polishers put a lot of stress on the pads and with not made for them they often wears down too fast. And the Rupes Yellow Foam Pad for longthrow is a must to have as they are that good. Lake Country pads is there HDO and Thin Pro lines. Buff & Shine is Uro-Tec pads and Low-Pro pads and Uro-Fiber pads (highly recommended light cutting pads that finishing amazing and on some paints LSP ready) and the Uro-Wool pads for heavy cutting. Griots Garage BOSS pads. Sonax Dual Action pads those with center holes. Sonax has a great wool pad for DA polishers and combo that with their Sonax ExCut 05-05 which is made for this pad and on DA polishers. Also Sonax EX 04-06 as a medium cut polish and finishing polish in one. Sonax is one of my favorite polishes products and to ad to the mentioned if you need a heavy cut compound Sonax Cutmax is awesome too.

    Mark your backing plate and pad so you see if the pad is spinning. Without a spinning action you won't polishing anything just vibrate the pad without anything happening.

    And do test spots so you know which combo gives you the results you are satisfied with. Then use this over the whole car. Leave any deeper defects as they gets. And concentrate on getting a clear and glossy finish. Sometimes you get away with 1 step and sometimes the little extra cut is needed but don't finish as clear as you want and a second step to get there. Then seal it in and maintain it with a great washing and drying technique. And you only need to be doing a 1 step to clear and glossy up the finish every year or every other year. Do a decon wash and reapply the LSP you use when needed.

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  6. #14
    Senior Member rlmccarty2000's Avatar
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    Re: 1st time machine compounding, a bit disappointed

    You sound like you are fairly new to detailing so I suggest a step back and go with Rupes pads and polishes. Rupes is a system and you already own their polisher. To be truthful I’ve never been a big fan of Rupes blue foam pads due to sling but you could use the Rupes wool pads for cutting. Grab Mike Phillips book on the Rupes system and buy the small bottles of Rupes polishes and a few pads and practice and you will get great results in a short time.

    Rupes yellow pads are my favorite pad out of all I have tried.

  7. #15
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    Re: 1st time machine compounding, a bit disappointed

    I am fairly new at machine compounding, but I use the Rupes pads and polishes because they work and are fairly idiot proof. The previous poster is right about the sling on the blue pads, but other than being a bit messy, they work as advertised. Someone put a 5 inch (and pretty deep into the clear) scratch on my brand new truck in the front quarter panel last week (it looked almost like someone ran a nail down it) and I got it pretty close to perfect with the blue pad and a Rupes Mille. There is still a 1/2 inch tiny hairline mark that I can see with a scan grip light, but my wife could not find it when I was done. (I then hit the whole truck with yellow pads and then hit the big flat parts of panels with the white superfine pad using a Bigfoot 21 and then ceramic coated it). The truck looks better than when I brought it home with 5 miles on it by a mile.

  8. #16
    Senior Member Calendyr's Avatar
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    Re: 1st time machine compounding, a bit disappointed

    Quote Originally Posted by garberfc View Post
    Hello All,

    I'm trying to compound out some scratches in my daughters 2016 Toyota Camry. She has some shallow and some deep scratching.

    I'm using a Rupes LHR 15 Mark III, with Lake Country yellow waffle pad, and Turtle Wax Rubbing compound. I made numerous horizontal and vertical passes using my 4 beads of compound at a speed of 4-5. I used a micro fiber cloth to clear the film. I was expecting at least the shallow scratches to be affected. I didn't even get a 'glaze' in the clear coat. I repeated the process, still no glaze. I did see a reduction in swirl marks.

    Any advise? Should I be using a more aggressive compound? If so, can you recommend any?

    Thank you in advance,
    F
    So many things to say...

    First off, compounding is not gonna remove deep scratches. You are gonna need to wetsand to do that.

    Second, foam pads are not good at removing scratches. You can do it but it takes a lot of time and effort. If you want effeciency on a DA, you need to use microfiber pads.

    Third, Turtle Wax compound is not rated at being any good by anyone I have ever seen using it. You might want to get some Meguiars or Menzerna compound. 3D have some decent ones too.

    Finally, if you go a heavy compound, you will want to get a polish as well to make the paint shiny afterwards.

    So for specific products, I suggest you get Meguiars Microfiber cutting disks, Meguiars D300 and D301 and a Lake country HDO Orange polishing pad. For the deep scratches, 2500 grit sand paper, this will take a bit of time but it is the safest way to remove scratches for someone just starting out wet sanding.

    Check youtube for wetsanding techniques, the trick is to take your time and do a few rubs, clean up, see where you are at and repeat until you are happy with the result. I would also get a check paint gauge to make sure you have enough paint to work with. Some of those can be found for under 50$ on Amazon and Ebay. The rule of thumb: If the paint is under 100 microns (4 mils), don't wetsand the scratch. If it is over 100 microns, check the depth while wetsanding to see how much paint you are removing. Over all you want to try to remove no more than 10 microns.

    Good luck!

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  10. #17
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    Re: 1st time machine compounding, a bit disappointed

    Quote Originally Posted by Calendyr View Post
    So many things to say...

    First off, compounding is not gonna remove deep scratches. You are gonna need to wetsand to do that.

    Second, foam pads are not good at removing scratches. You can do it but it takes a lot of time and effort. If you want effeciency on a DA, you need to use microfiber pads.

    Third, Turtle Wax compound is not rated at being any good by anyone I have ever seen using it. You might want to get some Meguiars or Menzerna compound. 3D have some decent ones too.

    Finally, if you go a heavy compound, you will want to get a polish as well to make the paint shiny afterwards.

    So for specific products, I suggest you get Meguiars Microfiber cutting disks, Meguiars D300 and D301 and a Lake country HDO Orange polishing pad. For the deep scratches, 2500 grit sand paper, this will take a bit of time but it is the safest way to remove scratches for someone just starting out wet sanding.

    Check youtube for wetsanding techniques, the trick is to take your time and do a few rubs, clean up, see where you are at and repeat until you are happy with the result. I would also get a check paint gauge to make sure you have enough paint to work with. Some of those can be found for under 50$ on Amazon and Ebay. The rule of thumb: If the paint is under 100 microns (4 mils), don't wetsand the scratch. If it is over 100 microns, check the depth while wetsanding to see how much paint you are removing. Over all you want to try to remove no more than 10 microns.

    Good luck!
    Thanks for all the information.

    As a next step I'm going to get Mike's book on How to Use The RUPES Bigfoot Paint Polishing System, use the Menzerna HC300 with both the Lake Country Yellow cutting foam pad and Mequiars MF cutting disk. And then make some decisions from there.

    As for a low cost paint depth gauge, could you recommend any?

  11. #18
    Senior Member Calendyr's Avatar
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    Re: 1st time machine compounding, a bit disappointed

    Quote Originally Posted by garberfc View Post
    Thanks for all the information.

    As a next step I'm going to get Mike's book on How to Use The RUPES Bigfoot Paint Polishing System, use the Menzerna HC300 with both the Lake Country Yellow cutting foam pad and Mequiars MF cutting disk. And then make some decisions from there.

    As for a low cost paint depth gauge, could you recommend any?
    Unfortunatelly not, I have seen them on ebay and amazon but never purchased any. I use the 250$ one, always been happy with it. My guess is the cheaper one are not gonna be as precise or they might not be durable. But if it's for a personal use, I bet they will be plenty useful. You want a rough idea anyways, who cares if it's 5 microns off?

  12. #19
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    Re: 1st time machine compounding, a bit disappointed

    The Menz HC400 did the job! I used it with the Meguiars microfiber cutting pad. I removed or vastly improved numerous shallow scratches and mars in the clear coat.

    You can see in the image what I did with the Turtle Waz rubbing compound!

    Sorry, try as I may, I keep getting a file upload failure.

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  14. #20
    Senior Member 2black1s's Avatar
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    Re: 1st time machine compounding, a bit disappointed

    I would think you are getting yourself an education in what can, and what cannot be, repaired by polishing alone. You stated that the area(s) you polished do exhibit diminished swirls. That tells me you're doing something right.

    Think of it like this. The swirls are in fact scratches of their own. But how deep? Not very. Now how deep do you estimate the real scratches are that you want to remove? 10 times, 20 times the depth of the swirls? Probably.

    That means that you'd have to polish 10x or 20x more to remove the scratch than you had to polish to remove the swirls. That is very risky and probably not recommended.

    My advice... Live with the scratches.

    Scratch repairs such as those you are concerned with should be left to those with enough experience to have a pretty good idea of what is repairable and what should be left alone. In most cases the answer is "leave it alone".

    And you mention "I didn't even get a 'glaze' in the clear coat." I have no idea what you mean by that.

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