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  1. #11
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    Re: Questions to chemists about alcohol

    I use gtechniq panel wipe at 1 to 1. I use n914 at ww dilution for the 1.

    Just factor the cost of product into the job.

  2. #12
    Super Member MarkD51's Avatar
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    Re: Questions to chemists about alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Calendyr View Post
    Hey guys, I have a few questions about the use of solvants to remove polishing oils and prepare surfaces for coatings and sealants.

    So, in the last 6 years, I have been using ONR 128:1 with 25% isopropyl content as a paint prep for sealants and coatings.

    I am wondering if I can substitute this for some other form of alcohol. For example, cold weather windshield washer fluid uses a high content of methyl alcohol. If I was so add an ounce of ONR to a gallon of this stuff, would it make a good Paint Prep? Why or why not?

    Also, I was told that Duplicolor Wax and Grease Remover is mostly Acetone. I think it does a very good job but Acetone is a know cancerigen, so I think I would like to stop using it. The question is, how effective would windshield washer + ONR be compared to both Acetone and IPA 25%?

    Feel free to speculate if you don't have hard scientific answers (as long as you are a chemist that is LOL).
    I know Mike Phillips has penned articles here about the use of IPA as a prep wipe, and how to calculate percentages with relatively simple mix ratios.

    These articles may have been written before the advent of the many Coatings that are now available.

    Would such not be suitable, and work for your, or other's needs, particularly in regards to the possible use of Coatings being applied?

    I could be wrong, but it appeared that Mike's primary use of such at the time was to see the actual true condition of the paint, and actual results of polishing processes, to see that any paint imperfections weren't perhaps being hidden by polishing oils and possible fillers.

  3. #13
    Super Member Calendyr's Avatar
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    Re: Questions to chemists about alcohol

    Yep. Genearally i do an IPA wipedown before doing the prep step for coating. The prep step is either a hand application of McKee's 37 Coating Preparation or machine application of CarPro Essence.

    I think the IPA would probably be enough, but I don't want to take any chances.

  4. #14
    Super Member rlmccarty2000's Avatar
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    Re: Questions to chemists about alcohol

    Are people diluting d120 or using it straight as a panel wipe? I’ve got a gallon going to waste and would like to use it up.

  5. #15
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    Re: Questions to chemists about alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Calendyr View Post
    Thank you for your efforts Ok so from what you are saying, here is what I am getting:

    -Various type of alcohol are used depending on brands and products. The ones available here in Canada, as far as I know, are always Methyl alcohol (wood alcohol). So the question is, is that a good solvant to remove oils, would it do the same job as Isopropyl alcohol at the same ratio for instance?

    - Isn't there an easy way to mesure alcohol content? People who make wine and beer do it all the time. I could get the necessary tool if really needed....

    - I think that the ratio of alcohol must be pretty much the same as long as you use windshield washer designed for the same temperature. Here in Montreal, 3 types are sold: 0 Celcius, -35 Celcius and -40 Celcius. So if they decided to change the ratio of alcohol that would impact the freezing point of the solution. So I can be fairly confident the ratio would either remain the same, or stay very close.
    Good point, they are going to use the minimum methyl alcohol necessary to keep the wiper fluid from freezing (for cost reasons), so that percentage will likely be similar over time. I don't know what that percentage is. Probably lowish - maybe 10-20% - the detergent and other additives will help the methanol lower the freezing point. Methyl will dissolve oils, but isopropyl is less polar than methyl, so isopropyl likely dissolves oils better than methyl.

    Methyl must be cheaper than isopropyl, that's why they use it (isopropyl and ethyl would be more desirable due to flashpoint and toxicity). Ethyl is likely not used because of cost. It's no more expensive to make, but it's going to be heavily taxed. But by all means, if you can find vodka for under $10/gallon, use it, it will serve double duty.

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  7. #16
    Super Member Eldorado2k's Avatar
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    Re: Questions to chemists about alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    Are people diluting d120 or using it straight as a panel wipe? I’ve got a gallon going to waste and would like to use it up.
    Don’t use it straight.

  8. #17
    Super Member Calendyr's Avatar
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    Re: Questions to chemists about alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by chet31 View Post
    Good point, they are going to use the minimum methyl alcohol necessary to keep the wiper fluid from freezing (for cost reasons), so that percentage will likely be similar over time. I don't know what that percentage is. Probably lowish - maybe 10-20% - the detergent and other additives will help the methanol lower the freezing point. Methyl will dissolve oils, but isopropyl is less polar than methyl, so isopropyl likely dissolves oils better than methyl.

    Methyl must be cheaper than isopropyl, that's why they use it (isopropyl and ethyl would be more desirable due to flashpoint and toxicity). Ethyl is likely not used because of cost. It's no more expensive to make, but it's going to be heavily taxed. But by all means, if you can find vodka for under $10/gallon, use it, it will serve double duty.
    Ok, that is what I wanted to know. So Methyl would not do as good a job at the same dilution ratio. So I would need to have a higher ratio for the same result. Exellent.

    As for using Vodka, might get drunk while detailing, not a good idea LOL: So one spray for the panel, one spray for me,

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