Flex 3401 vs. Rupes Mille/Makita P5000C, for those that are wondering.

**RSW** · 06-06-2017, 08:37 AM

OK. Yes, the machine spins counter clockwise in random orbital mode. That's because it doesn't matter. In random orbital mode there's not a lot of movement between the pad and the paint anyway.

The reason manufacturers went to larger and larger orbits is that the movement between the pad and the paint on a random orbital machine depends on the orbit - not the spin. Ask yourself this. How much effort does it take to keep the pad from spinning when a 21 mm throw random orbital machine is running at full speed no load - in the air. Attach a string and feel the pull. Where do you think that pull comes from? That amount of energy is all that's transferred to the paint and it's not enough to do anything much more than be amusing.

The Makita, because it has forced rotation, rotation that's achieved by the use of planetary gears - which reverse the direction of travel relative to the orbit when they're engaged - provides an action that combines rotary and orbit. That kind of spin matters - attach a string to the edge of the pad and see what happens - or better yet, don't - just use it and see the difference.

Because they finally got their act together and made the machine spin in, forced rotation mode, the same direction as a rotary the machine needs to run the same way you'd run a rotary. The pad has to be put against the paint the same way and weighted the same, but, because at full speed it only has 780 rpms, and you're likely to be using foam it's going to pretty safe. You'll still have to pay attention because the pad will snag on emblems and the like and you could thin the paint on an edge, but the rpms are pretty low compared to a rotary so the risks are less.

After you run this machine for awhile, picking up a rotary will be a lot easier. Also, if you already run a rotary this machine will feel comfortable out of the box - unlike the Makita BO6040 which spun counter clockwise in forced rotation.

RSW

**WRAPT C5Z06** · 06-06-2017, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by mrken1

Take off Fed X shipping label ....take pic for ebay...then UPS Label

Seriously think of canceling my direct drive ...........

Have that and my Harbor Frieght with 5/6 " Backing plates and my clone mini....

Again I got caught up in the hype

LOL

I didn't buy the Makita for the random orbit mode, I bought it for the forced rotation. It's supposed to correct faster than a Rupes 21 Mark II. I haven't tested for that yet, but looking forward to it.

**WRAPT C5Z06** · 06-06-2017, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by RSW

OK. Yes, the machine spins counter clockwise in random orbital mode. That's because it doesn't matter. In random orbital mode there's not a lot of movement between the pad and the paint anyway.

The reason manufacturers went to larger and larger orbits is that the movement between the pad and the paint on a random orbital machine depends on the orbit - not the spin. Ask yourself this. How much effort does it take to keep the pad from spinning when a 21 mm throw random orbital machine is running at full speed no load - in the air. Attach a string and feel the pull. Where do you think that pull comes from? That amount of energy is all that's transferred to the paint and it's not enough to do anything much more than be amusing.

The Makita, because it has forced rotation, rotation that's achieved by the use of planetary gears - which reverse the direction of travel relative to the orbit when they're engaged - provides an action that combines rotary and orbit. That kind of spin matters - attach a string to the edge of the pad and see what happens - or better yet, don't - just use it and see the difference.

Because they finally got their act together and made the machine spin in, forced rotation mode, the same direction as a rotary the machine needs to run the same way you'd run a rotary. The pad has to be put against the paint the same way and weighted the same, but, because at full speed it only has 780 rpms, and you're likely to be using foam it's going to pretty safe. You'll still have to pay attention because the pad will snag on emblems and the like and you could thin the paint on an edge, but the rpms are pretty low compared to a rotary so the risks are less.

After you run this machine for awhile, picking up a rotary will be a lot easier. Also, if you already run a rotary this machine will feel comfortable out of the box - unlike the Makita BO6040 which spun counter clockwise in forced rotation.

RSW

The is NO manufacturer, not one, that puts out a random orbital that does not spin, and I believe there's a reason for that. You'll get some correction with a 21mm if it's just oscillating, but no where near the correction if it's spinning. This goes for any stroke random orbital.

**ScottH** · 06-06-2017, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by RSW

OK. Yes, the machine spins counter clockwise in random orbital mode. That's because it doesn't matter. In random orbital mode there's not a lot of movement between the pad and the paint anyway.

The reason manufacturers went to larger and larger orbits is that the movement between the pad and the paint on a random orbital machine depends on the orbit - not the spin. Ask yourself this. How much effort does it take to keep the pad from spinning when a 21 mm throw random orbital machine is running at full speed no load - in the air. Attach a string and feel the pull. Where do you think that pull comes from? That amount of energy is all that's transferred to the paint and it's not enough to do anything much more than be amusing.

The Makita, because it has forced rotation, rotation that's achieved by the use of planetary gears - which reverse the direction of travel relative to the orbit when they're engaged - provides an action that combines rotary and orbit. That kind of spin matters - attach a string to the edge of the pad and see what happens - or better yet, don't - just use it and see the difference.

Because they finally got their act together and made the machine spin in, forced rotation mode, the same direction as a rotary the machine needs to run the same way you'd run a rotary. The pad has to be put against the paint the same way and weighted the same, but, because at full speed it only has 780 rpms, and you're likely to be using foam it's going to pretty safe. You'll still have to pay attention because the pad will snag on emblems and the like and you could thin the paint on an edge, but the rpms are pretty low compared to a rotary so the risks are less.

After you run this machine for awhile, picking up a rotary will be a lot easier. Also, if you already run a rotary this machine will feel comfortable out of the box - unlike the Makita BO6040 which spun counter clockwise in forced rotation.

RSW

This one also spins counterclockwise in direct drive mode

ScottH

**WRAPT C5Z06** · 06-06-2017, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by ScottH

This one also spins counterclockwise in direct drive mode

ScottH

I just put a piece of tape on the pad and you're RIGHT, it does spin counterclockwise in forced mode!!

**WRAPT C5Z06** · 06-06-2017, 08:56 AM

The BACKING PLATE gives the appearance that it's spinning CLOCKWISE, but the PAD is spinning COUNTERCLOCKWISE!!!!! Not until I put a piece of tape on the PAD, could I tell!!

**RSW** · 06-06-2017, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by WRAPT C5Z06

The BACKING PLATE gives the appearance that it's spinning CLOCKWISE, but the PAD is spinning COUNTERCLOCKWISE!!!!! Not until I put a piece of tape on the PAD, could I tell!!

Were you looking down at the pad or from the top of the machine?

Again, the amount of energy it takes to stop a random orbital from spinning is the amount of energy that goes into correction. I'd love to put my money where my mouth is next to anyone who wants.

If anyone wants to sell their Makita because it doesn't spin in random orbit - let me know. I'll try and find it a good home.

RSW

**WRAPT C5Z06** · 06-06-2017, 09:22 AM

Had the pad flat on the paint with a piece of tape on it. I was looking from the top of the machine with that pad flat on the paint, just as if I was polishing paint. Counterclockwise.

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**WRAPT C5Z06** · 06-06-2017, 09:26 AM

The BP rotates clockwise, but the pad does not.

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Mike Phillips · 06-06-2017, 09:40 AM

Yeah I was wrong somehow...

That was a very busy week for me as I was trying to not only review the tool, shoot some videos etc. but I also had to detail the Duster

I just double checked and the backing plate/pad does rotate counter clockwise in the forced rotation mode.

I don't often make mistakes and looking at my current post count over the last 8 years here at Autogeek my mistakes have been far and few between.

Posts count = 36,924

I guess I don't see what the big deal is about which direction the backing plate spins in any mode. No matter which direction it spins --> you are still going to have to HOLD THE TOOL and manage it while buffing.