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  1. #11
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    Re: Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    One last thing....



    I often get asked,


    Can you re-use the buffing pads?



    You see, when working on single stage paint the pigment in the paint is going to stain the pads.





    My answer is YES!


    I through all the above pads in the washing machine and then the dryer. Here's a brand new pad next to a washed pad.





    Although there is still some color staining of the foam - I wouldn't hesitate to use this pad or any of the pads on any car in the future.



    I was just about to ask this question!

  2. #12
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    Re: Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction

    Mike, can you take some measurements with your paint thickness meter to see how much difference it shows. Not sure if it is accurate enough to show tenths of mils differences but it would be interesting if we could see a general 0.2 mil reduction (example) after your polishing. Thanks. Great job!

  3. #13
    Senior Member 57Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction

    Sweet car and great rejuvenation work Mike.

    Pontiac had such iconic styling ... love the hood "waterfall" and Chief Pontiac is looking good too !

  4. #14
    Senior Member Sizzle Chest's Avatar
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    Re: Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction

    Super cool project! Looks killer now!
    Scott Harle
    Autodermatology
    #autodermatology


  5. #15
    Senior Member TMQ's Avatar
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    Re: Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction

    Awesome.....

    Anyway--question for you.

    Do you recommend changing to a larger backing plate on the CBEAST?

    Tom
    Mr Tommy's
    Wash, Buff, Wax
    Website: mrtommyshine.com

  6. #16
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post

    I often get asked,

    Can you re-use the buffing pads?


    You see, when working on single stage paint the pigment in the paint is going to stain the pads.





    My answer is YES!


    I through all the above pads in the washing machine and then the dryer. Here's a brand new pad next to a washed pad.




    Although there is still some color staining of the foam - I wouldn't hesitate to use this pad or any of the pads on any car in the future.



    Quote Originally Posted by waddell64 View Post

    I was just about to ask this question!

    In my last 3-day class, we had 4 cars with single stage paint. If you scroll through the pages of the write-up I did for this class I also shared before and after pictures for the pads with comments.


    Pictures: 2020 September 3-Day Detailing Bootcamp Class

    These four cars all had single stage paint.












    That class detailed 17 cars in 3 days. There's no other class like this on Planet Earth.

    Next 3-day class is coming up in February.



    Mike Phillips's BIG 3-Day Car Detailing Classes

    The most hands-on detailing classes on Planet Earth - DOCUMENTED!




    Schedule for 2021



    >>>Click here for more info or to sign-up<<<





    Mike Phillips's BIG 2-Day Boat Detailing Class

    The most hands-on boat detailing classes on Planet Earth - DOCUMENTED!


    Click here to view the original image of 1024x768px.



    Schedule for 2021



    >>>Click here for more info or to sign-up<<<



    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
    IDA Board Member - Certified Detailer - Skills Validated Detailer - IDA Recognized Trainer
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  7. #17
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by dgage View Post

    Mike, can you take some measurements with your paint thickness meter to see how much difference it shows.

    Not sure if it is accurate enough to show tenths of mils differences but it would be interesting if we could see a general 0.2 mil reduction (example) after your polishing.


    Thanks. Great job!

    Too late - car is gone. Wouldn't show much difference anyways and in order to be accurate - I would have to do what I did here in this really in-depth write-up I did in 2009 and it's very controlled and also time-consuming.



    Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins


    A grid pattern laid out to provide 3 areas to test that are all flat in shape and in places where we would hope the paint thickness or film-build would be as uniform as possible from a factory paint job as compared to testing on the hood, a door, (vertical panel), or some other curved or slanted panel. Again, trying to reduce the variables as much as possible.

    3M Painter's Tape Grid System







    Three sections marked A, B, and C. The piece of foam is marked with the letter E which stands for "Equalizer" as I need a quick simple tool to help me place 4 dots on the paint in roughly the same place for each step and measurement. I hindsight a piece of thin cardboard with 3-4 holes punched into the corners would have been more accurate but this isn't Rocket Science, I'm just trying to show how much paint is being removed on average when hand-sanding with the higher grit papers like the average online enthusiast might do in their garage. In other words, I'm keeping it real-world.








    Then I used the PosiTest Paint Thickness Gage and measured each dot 3 times and took the average of the 3 readings. I started in the upper left hand corner and moved around the dots in a clockwise manner. In this picture I've just finished taking the last reading of the number #4 dot at the C location on the panel. (The upper left hand corner dot)



    Here are the results from the first set of measurements from the three locations on the paint panel.






    The above is just a portion of the entire write-up. It's super in-depth but guess what? No one reads anymore.


    And I sanded each section 3 times - that's 600 strokes of #2000 followed by #2500 followed by #3000 grit finishing papers. Did you see that?


    600 STROKES!


    And after all the sanding, compounding and polishing I only removed .5 mils


    Take a moment to read through this article as it shows how much paint is removed via sanding and buffing and if you're using great products and doing precise work - it's not as much paint as you think.

    Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griot's ROP and the Wolfgang Twins







    While I know it's interesting to measure and monitor how much paint you're removing for any detail job - in the really big picture - we should all be using the least aggressive process so we fix the paint to our expectations while leaving as much paint as possible on the car to hold up over the mechanical service life of the car.


    Make sense?


    This goes back to what I wrote here,


    The Professional Detailer's Oath



    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
    IDA Board Member - Certified Detailer - Skills Validated Detailer - IDA Recognized Trainer
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  8. Thanks dgage thanked for this post
  9. #18
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    Re: Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction

    Great post and thread Mike. Thank you! That answered my question. And as I figured, even with a more expensive thickness gauge, the variability is likely too great to accurately measure a set of compounding and polishing passes.

  10. #19
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by 57Rambler View Post

    Sweet car and great rejuvenation work Mike.
    Thanks - I had to be super careful with the machine buffing. The entire time I was buffing I watched the paint surface closely for signs of the ghostly appearance of primer.


    Quote Originally Posted by 57Rambler View Post

    Pontiac had such iconic styling ... love the hood "waterfall" and Chief Pontiac is looking good too !


    Now that you mention it - now I see it. I know about how some furniture uses waterfall styling but didn't think to apply it to the hood of this car until you pointed it out.


    Good eye.


    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
    IDA Board Member - Certified Detailer - Skills Validated Detailer - IDA Recognized Trainer
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  11. #20
    Senior Member 57Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Barn Find - 1950 Pontiac Chieftain Deluxe Convertible - Extreme Paint Correction

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Now that you mention it - now I see it. I know about how some furniture uses waterfall styling but didn't think to apply it to the hood of this car until you pointed it out.

    Good eye.


    Harley Earl was the one who brought the waterfall styling to Buick and Pontiac. First he did the Buick Y-Job, the first concept car ever done by a major manufacturer, and where he introduced the famous Buick "waterfall" grille styling that still lives on today.





    Then at Pontiac he introduced the ornamental "waterfall" hood and trunk moldings.


    P.S. - FYI, the "William H. Leland, II" listed as the 2nd owner on the Chieftain's display placard is no less than the great-nephew of Henry Leland, founder of Cadillac (and Lincoln as well). So this car has some interesting provenance.

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