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  1. #51
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    Re: i am disappointed from my 21 MK2

    maybe i did- i edited the last paragraph out

  2. #52
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    Re: i am disappointed from my 21 MK2

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin47 View Post
    The best detailers I’ve trained are the ones that had a natural talent for long throws, the hobbyists or mediocre detailers always went the other route and its easy to identify between them on this site too.
    So the inference being anybody that buys a Mille, or LHR19 is now automatically goes from being a great detailer to a mediocre detailer, I take it. You know, people like Remy Doyle, Junkman 2000, the entire team of world class detailers that worked on the Air Force One detail (used both 3401s, XFE7-15-150 abd XFE7-12-129s, and I know the last two are free rotation). All of them are mediocre based on the fact that they used force rotation polishers? And I also take it that Rupes, by introducing the Mille, is now encouraging mediocrity and poor detailing practises, according to you?

    Mike Philips must also be a mediocre detailer, seeing as he wrote the book on using the XC 3401, huh?

    You seriously need to reconsider what you wrote. You may be a big fan of the 21mm Bigfoot, but don't go making judgements on people based on their equipment choisces.

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  4. #53
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    Re: i am disappointed from my 21 MK2

    Quote Originally Posted by kkritsilas View Post
    So the inference being anybody that buys a Mille, or LHR19 is now automatically goes from being a great detailer to a mediocre detailer, I take it. You know, people like Remy Doyle, Junkman 2000, the entire team of world class detailers that worked on the Air Force One detail (used both 3401s, XFE7-15-150 abd XFE7-12-129s, and I know the last two are free rotation). All of them are mediocre based on the fact that they used force rotation polishers? And I also take it that Rupes, by introducing the Mille, is now encouraging mediocrity and poor detailing practises, according to you?

    Mike Philips must also be a mediocre detailer, seeing as he wrote the book on using the XC 3401, huh?

    You seriously need to reconsider what you wrote. You may be a big fan of the 21mm Bigfoot, but don't go making judgements on people based on their equipment choisces.
    Comprehension is key

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  6. #54
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    i am disappointed from my 21 MK2

    I’m starting to view polishers in a similar manner to how I learned to view pistols in the gun world.

    Whether a $500 Glock or a 4-figure custom 1911, I figure either is far more accurate than I’ll ever be. In the grand scheme of the system, I am the weakest link.

    Similarly, any of the tools available today (rotary, long throw, forced etc) can probably produce equal results (perfect paint) given the right technique. Again, I am the limiting factor.

    I bet someone with tons of experience who’s got perfect technique with a 7424 can probably get better results than I could with my boss g15, all else being equal. Just like Jerry Miculek could take a cheapo Taurus revolver and probably out shoot me with an AR15.

    The main points I think are becoming more apparently important to me are ease of use, and versatility. I wish the Mille had come out before I bought my g15, but that’s life I guess. If I really pay attention on my technique, I may not be quite as quick but I’ll get the results.


    Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
    Joe Catanzaro
    JCDetails (RI Based Mobile Detailer)
    http://jcdetails.com

  7. #55
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    Re: i am disappointed from my 21 MK2

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin47 View Post
    Comprehension is key
    So is allowing that people will use whatever tools they feel most comfortable with. So is understanding that your statement opens up a lot of ways of it being interpreted, and drawing some inferences. as I did. (I didn't call people who have difficulty with using a 21mm long throw polisher mediocre and amature, you did.+

    So is judging the degree of professionalism by how close to perfection one can get the paint to. You however, choose to judge professionalism, or even competence by a persons ability to master a 21 mm long throw polisher. This may be of importance to you, but most, and if I may be so bold, all, of the people who have their cars detailed to perfection, really don't care which polisher, polish, or LSP was used. They will judge it, and the professionalism of the detailer, on how good the paint looks in the end. They won't care if the paint was polished with string mop, as long as all the defects are gone (to the extent possible), the colour is clear and bright,and the paint has a really high gloss. If the detailer used a cheap Chinese knock off polisher of some sort, a forced rotation polisher, a short throw free rotation polisher, a long throw free rotation polisher, or a rotary polisher is of no consequence.

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  9. #56
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    Re: i am disappointed from my 21 MK2

    ^^ to be honest, I think you’re reading way too far into what ronin said and seem to be taking it very personally.

    I would agree with ronin in that forced machines are often touted as the end all be all and many of the uninitiated go that way thinking it’s some sort of ‘shortcut’ or will save them time or effort. Maybe it can, but at what opportunity cost compared to taking the time to properly master other tools and methods? That’s the important question IMO.

    Different tools requiring different methods to obtain the same results. Some tools are more forgiving of slightly less than perfect technique, others aren’t.

    At the end of the day, it’s no different than those who prefer a rotary to cut with rather than a DA and vice versa. The end goal is some quantity of defect removal and gloss, and varying combination of tool and technique to get there.


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    JCDetails (RI Based Mobile Detailer)
    http://jcdetails.com

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  11. #57
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    Re: i am disappointed from my 21 MK2

    I don’t see that as a misread. What was originally stated was that one could be a “good” detailer by using any machine, but that to be “great” one must use and master a long throw. “A great detailer is one whos (sic) mastered the long throw.” When this contention was questioned by several responses, including mine, those who questioned it were characterized as reading selectively, misreading, or failing to comprehend two simple declarative statements – in effect doubling down on the insult.

    We are all aware of the forum rules against attacking other members, and the member making the original contention is not being attacked. What IS being questioned is what the member said. That distinction is why it is not personal. Accusing those who questioned the original statement of being incapable of understanding two simple statements is what is both personal and belittling.

  12. #58
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    Re: i am disappointed from my 21 MK2

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd@RUPES View Post
    If I may...

    First. My (now) 16-year old neighbor is the Florida State Champ for her weight division (105 lbs or similar) in Olympic Lighting, and even at 14, she was moving serious weight... just sayin'.

    Second. It is my opinion that gear-driven polishers are less technique dependent than random orbital polishers (which become slightly more technique specific as the orbital length increases). The trade-off with gear-driven polishers is you pay for this with a rougher rider and more fatigue. RUPES, with the Mille, has made a serious effort to create a gear-driven polisher that ramps up user comfort to levels unthought of before while offering class-leading performance.

    Third. Too much attention is paid to pad stall. If we freeze the rotational movement, large-diameter random orbital polishers like the 21 will still produce more movement across the entire diameter of the pad than most gear-driven polishers do at full RPM. It is a matter of utilizing that power with proper technique and pad formulas that makes the difference.

    I am a firm believer that off the polishing movements currently available : orbital, random orbital, gear-driven, and rotary - random orbital still offers the best average of attributes.
    Todd,

    I couldn't agree more that there's too much attention paid to pad stall. As I've mentioned over and over, the amount of energy making that kind of spin is measurable by attaching a string to the edge of the pad and feeling the pull on the string when the machine is running and it's not much, especially when you consider the other movements.



    What tools and pads would you use if someone asked you to polish a car cut with 1500 dry sandpaper using a random orbital sander? I'm not asking specifically, though I'm guessing the answer will have something to do with Rupes. Season's Greetings!

    RSW



    RSW

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