4 Part Process Still Has Swirls?

[SRHTX]

yep i have heard some where if not even on here that the rotary makes the holograms and i will need to get a DA to help eliminate or have perfect technique.

sux but i'll be able to fix the issue soon!

I know I know..... I will be driving up to San Antonio early tomorrow morning. I will have my Flex, Meg stuff, pads and towels. Just remember, it will be raining tomorrow.

[Mike Phillips]

so, your categorizing my stuff as swirl removers? they say finishing on them.

SMR stands for Swirl Mark Remover, it's basically any medium to light abrading product intended to remove a little paint and hopefully flatten or level out the surface and not leave it's own scratches behind. Besides the product you also have to take into consideration the process, which is your method of application, (by hand or tool and if a tool the type of tool), and the application material, foam, cotton, wool, microfiber, etc.

the marring you speak of, you say its showing up because i am removing fillers? that doesnt make sense i never said it ever fixed the swirls. im saying it wont remove them.

Marring is a kinder, more gentle name for scratches. Marring, or Micro-marring can e very shallow or noticeable tick marks in the paint, often times after using a DA style polisher with a foam cutting pad or with some SMR's.

btw i was told that wool is more harsh then foam because the wool hairs each make cuts into the paint and the yellow (which is meant for compound) is meant to reduce the cuts the wool made.

That's something I've been typing for about 15+ years. It's pretty easy to prove too, just take a brand new wool cutting pad or finishing pad, put it on a rotary buffer and then buff some black paint with any type of non-abrasive high lubricity polish, heck you can use baby oil or vegetable oil or motor oil if you like as these last 3 oils are all 100% non-abrasive.

The point being, run a wool pad on a ROTARY BUFFER over black paint with a non-abrasive product and then wash the panel and pull the car out into bright sunlight and you'll see rotary buffer swirls or holograms.

Question: Where do you think they come from?

Wool pads aren't evil, they are an awesome tool and they have their place in the polishing world in general, but they shouldn't be used to finish with as foam has been proven to be better for finishing since at least 1965, about the time the Mustang was introduced, (well technically the Mustang was introduced in 1964.5 ), and Gilligan's Island debuted.

I say it is a great example of how important it is to do a test spot.

DLB

Great point Dalton...

This is another thread that proves the importance of doing a Test Spot, that is dialing in your system to one small area before buffing out the entire car. Prove your system works to one small area and you won't have to waste any time re-doing your work.

Also this would be a perfect example of why you do an IPA wipe-down after each step.

At least to your Test Spot.

If you prove your process in your Test Spot and then you duplicate the process over the entire car then you shouldn't have to chemically strip your paint after each step.

Note that there is no official recommendation by Autogeek to chemically strip your car's paint after each step, that's just the opinion of some of our members. Each person can decide what's best for themselves.

Lets not turn 87rx7chick's thread into an off-topic discussion over chemically stripping, if anyone feels so compelled, let them start their own thread. Seriously.

See this thread for a similar topic...

1-Step versus 3-Step Process by Hand

Buffing with a mismatched system can be a frustrating experience. 3M offers a new simplified system. I have used it with excellent results. I went on to their website to get you details.

You would be interested in steps 3-5. It is key to use the correct pad with the corresponding compound.

Good point and considering this was your first post to our forum, very insightful.

Welcome to AutogeekOnline!

[87rx7chick]

I know I know..... I will be driving up to San Antonio early tomorrow morning. I will have my Flex, Meg stuff, pads and towels. Just remember, it will be raining tomorrow.

i got a garage and i have some lamps i can add to the garage and i can maybe pick up a 10$ fluro fixture and hang it tonight.

lots of room in garage and added light if need be.

[Mike Phillips]

These are rotary buffer swirls, they look to be very light or shallow. These are also referred to as holograms or buffer trails.

In my experience with the 3M line I found the results were only so-so. All those bottles have now migrated to the back of my shelves and are collecting dust. I'm not sure how to help you with your issues you're having right now other then to suggest when you have spare cash ~90$ try ordering a bottle of SIP and 106 or 85RD.

This is your thread, the one I posted a link to above,

What am I doing wrong - Holograms after using the rotary buffer


After others tried to tweak your technique using the rotary buffer, on page 4 of the thread I suggested you change the action of the tool by switching to a DA style polisher, shortly afterwards you posted the below, also to page 4 of the above thread.

But I'm proud to say I just completed two of what I'd call, my first perfect finishes. I know it's hard to say perfect, but I've found a technique that works so well now, that I'm very confident with my outcomes.

This is what I did. SIP at 1700rpm on the Makita, 106FA 5-6, 85rd 5-6, both with PC starting with moderate pressure then lightening up

and finishing with two layers of Liquid Souveran. Here's some pics while I was working, didn't take to many though.

(Note: Impressive pictures from the above quote removed but they are worth clicking to and looking at)

but its not the wool i am having issue with , i already removed the compound swirls but the polish created new swirls. ... um... yeah..

It's time to change the action of the tool for your finishing steps, put the rotary buffer down and switch to a Porter Cable 7424XP or a Griot's Garage ROP.

While it's dangerous to make predictions when you're not working in person on a car, I predict that a product like M205 with a polishing pad or a finishing pad on a DA Polisher between the 5.0 to 6.0 speed setting will quickly and easily remove the swirls left by the rotary buffer. A Flex 3401 could also be used with the same types of pads and the M205 on the 4.0 to 5.0 speed setting.

nothing wrong with using all 3M products, my thinking is maybe you are not working the product long enough or using to much. i know when i use my rotary ending with the gray foam never leaves/adds swirls marks. i very seldomly "have" to use the blue pad.

And just to note, I've never said that a 100% swirl free finish cannot be achieved using ONLY a rotary buffer but that doesn't mean it can be done by all people and on ALL paint systems.

Also, how you check for any left-behind swirls is important, if you leave the car in the garage and go straight to wax you might now know if there were swirls or not. If you wash the car with a strong detergent soap like Dawn dish washing soap a few times and/or chemically strip the paint swirls you couldn't see before washing and stripping might show up.

Following a rotary process with a DA style polisher insures the swirls are removed. Notice I didn't say following a rotary buffer with a DA Polisher insures the highest possible clarity and gloss, I wrote it insures the swirls are removed. There's a difference. Anyone that wants to take that tangent further should also start their own dedicated thread.

Hey there,

I will bring my Flex and Meg's 105 & 205. I will also bring some of my pads as well.

I"m going to step out on a limb here without doing a bunch of researching into your posting history to find out what kind of Flex polisher you own but it is the 3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher? Correct?

If you're talking about an RB just for fun take along a DA style polisher also if you can.

[Mike Phillips]

I know I know..... I will be driving up to San Antonio early tomorrow morning. I will have my Flex, Meg stuff, pads and towels. Just remember, it will be raining tomorrow.

That's really swell of you Stephen!

[SRHTX]

I"m going to step out on a limb here without doing a bunch of researching into your posting history to find out what kind of Flex polisher you own but it is the 3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher? Correct?

If you're talking about an RB just for fun take along a DA style polisher also if you can.

Ask Mr. Dwayne. He knows.

[StephenK]

And just to note, I've never said that a 100% swirl free finish cannot be achieved using ONLY a rotary buffer but that doesn't mean it can be done by all people and on ALL paint systems.

i understand you never said that and i never said you did. i am also aware that not all people can finish swirl free with a rotary. my point to my post was it may not be the pad intrducing the swirl marks like it seemed he thought was happening.

[SRHTX]

That's really swell of you Stephen!

That what good friends are for.

[87rx7chick]

looks like there is only AM rain tomorrow.

though just in case i bought a 2nd light fixture for the garage. 4 foot t12 fixture 9$ at home depot!!!

hopefully this will be enough added light just in case.

oh yeah and thanks to anthony , i now have no rinse so it will be easy to wipe down the car when we start!!!!
i also have about 15 brand new never used microfiber

[SRHTX]

oh yeah and thanks to anthony , i now have no rinse so it will be easy to wipe down the car when we start!!!! i also have about 15 brand new never used microfiber

COOL!!!!!!! My Mazda will need a bath when I make it to San Antonio since I will be driving through the King Ranch. Also, the valley has this tomorrow:

Harlingen, TX:

Tuesday


74° F | 52° F

T-storms
70% chance of precipitation

San Antonio:

Tuesday


65° F | 40° F

Chance of Rain 20% chance of precipitation

Boerne, TX:

Tuesday


61° F | 38° F

Chance of Rain 20% chance of precipitation




5-Day Forecast for ZIP Code 78552 Customize Your Icons!TuesdayWednesdayThursdayFridaySaturday
74° F | 52° F

70° F | 49° F

70° F | 49° F

72° F | 54° F

77° F | 58° F
T-storms 70% chance of precipitation
Clear Partly Cloudy Partly Cloudy Partly Cloudy