Paint Thickness Gauge that reads thickness of each layer on automotive paint

[allenk4]

Is the Defelsko PTG system described below actually able to read the thickness of the clear coat on automotive substrates like metal, aluminum, SMC, carbon fiber and fiberglass

I have read it a couple of times, but want to make sure I am not missing something


Re: paint depth gauge
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Response from Defelsko:
Subject: RE: DeFelsko Inspection Instruments Inquiry

Dear Mr. Allen,

Thank you for your inquiry and for your interest in our products.

Our PosiTector 6000 FNS3 Advanced in combination with our Ultrasonic 200 B probe are ideal for measuring the thickness of automotive paint on steel and aluminum (6000 FNS) and multi-layer automotive paint on carbon fiber composite, fiberglass, plastic and SMC (200 B).
PosiTector 6000 FNS3 Advanced ($1,475):
- Hi Contrast reversible color LCD
- Storage of 100,000 readings in up to 1,000 batches and sub-batches
- Batch Annotation - add notes and change batch names with onscreen QWERTY keyboard
- WiFi and Bluetooth wireless connectivity
- Scan Mode takes continuous readings without lifting the probe
- SSPC PA2 feature determines if film thickness over a large area conforms to user-specified min/max levels
- PSPC 90/10 feature determines if a coating system complies with an IMO performance standard for protective coatings
For a complete comparison visit:
PosiTector 6000 - Gage Features
All gages come complete with instructions, protective rubber holster with belt clip and lens shield, wrist strap, 3 AAA alkaline batteries, nylon carrying case with shoulder strap, precision plastic shims, Long Form Certificate of Calibration traceable to PTB or NIST, USB cable, PosiSoft Solutions (view and report data) and a two-year warranty. PosiTector 6000 coating thickness gages, gauge, meter use magnetic and eddy current principles to measure coating thickness on both ferrous and non-ferrous metals.

Popular Accessories include:

- Coating Thickness Standards with traceable Certificate of Calibration - $325
- Bluetooth Wireless Printer - $425
- AC Power Kit - $45
- Rechargeable Batteries - $20

Re: PosiTector 200 B probe interchangeability
PosiTector Standard and Advanced gage bodies universally accept a variety of probes from our entire line of PosiTector instruments: PosiTector - Probe Interchangability
When connected to a PosiTector Advanced gage body, the PosiTector 200 B probe ($1,615) is capable of measuring the thickness of clear coat (individually) and base coat / primer combined. Please rwefer to our website for details: PosiTector 200 - Ordering Guide
All items are in stock and available for shipment by UPS. We accept Visa, MasterCard, American Express and Discover credit cards.
Please contact us if you have questions or wish to place an order.
Best regards,
Bob Wells, Technical Sales
DeFelsko Corporation
+1-315-393-4450
DeFelsko Coating Thickness Gages, Gauges and Inspection Instruments, Adhesion Tester, Dew Point Meter, Surface Profile, Ultrasonic Thickness Gages and Meters


-----Original Message-----
From: kyleallen21@hotmail.com [mailto:kyleallen21@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 1:16 PM
To: DeFelsko Technical
Subject: DeFelsko Inspection Instruments Inquiry
Name: Kyle Allen
Company: Detailed by Kyle
Telephone: 5127506764
Address: Venice, CA
Country:
I am interested in the following:
Coating Thickness Application Information:
Coating: Automotive Paint
Thickness Range of Coating: mils
Substrate: All
Part Description:

Additional Information about your request:
A colleague indicated that Defelsko manufacturers a PTG that will measure paint thickness on Steel, Aluminum, Carbon Fiber and SMC (Corvette)
If possible, I would invest in a device that could measure the thickness of the various layers, specifically the base coat and clear coat

Thank You,

Kyle Allen

Heard about us from: AutoGeek

[highflier]

Short answer NO. It will work better on an aluminum substrate than steel but it cannot provide the discrimination required to pass an R&R (Repeatability/Reproducibility), UNLESS you have a sample of the base substrate, treated substrate, primed substrate and full coated substrate to "0" to. In other words it is useful if you are applying the finish, not so much on a finished vehicle. It can somewhat compare one vehicle to another in that if you "0"'d it on one vehicle panel you know was painted correctly and then read another unknown vehicle it could tell you whether the unknown has more or less material on top of the substrate. in this case it could not tell you what the extra material is accurately. (bondo, treatment, primer, topcoat) In addition, for this type of teating there are much cheaper gauges out therem some I believe from the same company. BTW, for background, I am PLT Mgr of a firm that coats (paints) 350 milion lbs of various substrates annually. If this equipment returned the best R&R (see above) we would be using it.

[allenk4]

Good info

I spoke with the folks at Defelsko and they confirm that the gauge will not detect individual layers on automotive sheet metal

This difficulty is also increased because of new water based paint systems that spray wet/wet which makes the individual layers even harder to discern

[highflier]

There are various methods to determine thickness when applying a coating. The only accurate methods of measuring after coating on Galvanized Steel are destructive. ie you have to cut a sample and destroy it to measure it. (SEM, WSW and others) Problem is you now only know what you have on the specific piece tested and are still assuming (within process capability) that the rest is coated evenly. On Aluminum and Cold Roll Steel you can use a probe but the one we use costs approx. 3x as much as the Positect. As you can tell I am into this stuff but I better be as I deal with it every day!

[Glipski]

Highflier,

Exactly what do you coat and what process? E-Coating by any chance? What type of volumes do you process per year? Are you TS certified? Just curious.

[highflier]

Continuous Coil Coating. Polyester, Siliconized Poly, Kynars and Acrylic paints. We paint large coils of galvanized steel, aluminum, cold roll, stainless and more at upwards of 500 fpm. The paint is catalyzed, going thru a 900deg oven in 15-30 secs. Anything that can be made after painting we coat. Metal buildings/roofs, HVAC units, Cargo Trailers, high end horse trailer, Appliances and Automotive trim. ANY can you eat or drink out of also has a coating applied, if it didn't the food/drink would eat right thru it. We are ISO and TS certified. The plant I manage can coat up to 30 million lbs in one month. We are kind of a hidden industry as we don't "make" anything, we perform the service of painting the metal. If you google Continuous Coil Coating, several sites including Wikipedia have decent information. I have been in the industry 27 years, it has been good to me and I have the same passion for it today as when I started.

[allenk4]

Hi Kyle,

Thank you for your inquiry.

I would be happy to give you some more information about the PELT gauge. The cost of a PELT gauge with onsite training and calibrations is about $50,000.

Before I can formally quote you I need to know more information about your application.

Can you tell me a little more about your company and what your measurement needs are?


Best Regards,

Renée G. Basset

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The leading multi-layer coating thickness gauges

[Hoosier Daddy]

I would think it feasible to have a device that measures the thickness of clear-coat. If you bounced a laser thru the clear-coat at an angle the lateral distance where it reflected back would be the base of an isosceles triangle that you could calculate the depth with. I have no idea how difficult/expensive it would be depending on how much the color coat scatters the light.

[AGOatemywallet]

I would think it feasible to have a device that measures the thickness of clear-coat. If you bounced a laser thru the clear-coat at an angle the lateral distance where it reflected back would be the base of an isosceles triangle that you could calculate the depth with. I have no idea how difficult/expensive it would be depending on how much the color coat scatters the light.

What would this proposed device cost?