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  1. #11
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Review: RUPES Mark III BigFoot 21 Polisher by Mike Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by WRAPT C5Z06 View Post

    Pinnacle Jeweling Wax? Wouldn’t that be outside the system?

    Yes. You are correct. Using a non-RUPES product with RUPES tools would be absolutely considered working outside the "system".


    Thank you for pointing this out as it give me the opportunity to add and explain your comment to those that might not know what we are talking about.

    First - in the RUPES world, RUPES is a system, not a tool. That's why I titled my RUPES book the way I did. As a Veteran of the NXT vs Zaino Wax Wars - I don't type a single word that is not intended and has purpose.

    The RUPES BigFoot Paint Polishing System





    And when it comes to teaching RUPES as a system, I am the only NON-RUPES employee that is true to their brand. I ALWAYS teach RUPES as a system in all my car detailing classes. ALWAYS. I do this as a professional courtesy to Guido Valentini, the owner and President of RUPES as well as all his stellar employees. Below is Guido and myself at RUPES factory in Milan, Italy.


    Meet Guido Valentini the Presidente of Rupes



    In fact - I am very confident I have MORE RUPES detailing classes documented with pictures and the cool cars I use for my RUPES classes than any other Instructor outside of RUPES and even among all RUPES employees. There's a benefit to knowing how to work with pictures on the Internet as well as knowing how to write. I started creating a list of classes 4 years ago and have not updated it since. It would take me at least a day or longer to add all the RUPES classes I have documented to this list.

    List of RUPES BigFoot Detailing Classes at Autogeek




    Heck - even when Yancy and I went to Waxstock in England and I taught a Roadshow Class there I showed RUPES as a SYSTEM - This means I packed all the tools, pads and chemicals I would need and shipped them there and then shipped them home again.

    Pictures: Roadshow Class at Waxstock in England!







    The above all said - RUPES at this time does not have an AIO on the market "yet". I'm sure they will at some time. When I was a guest at the 2014 International Sales Meeting at RUPES in Milan, Italy, I was asked to make a presentation during the meeting and a part of my presentation was I recommended that moving into the future, RUPES should introduce,

    1. A traditional Carnauba Wax
    2. A synthetic sealant
    3. A ceramic paint coating
    4. One-step cleaner/wax



    And the reason I gave RUPES for offering all of the above categories is to offer something for everyone. Some of their customers may want a ceramic paint coating while some may want a traditional carnauba wax and/or a cleaner/wax. In 2014 when I made this recommendation (Jason Rose was still at Meguiar's) and RUPES did not have a large selection of car care chemicals outside their 5 compounds and polishes. And the thing is - if you only offer products for PAINT CORRECTION - you force your customer's to seek out products for SEALING the paint from your competitors. Meguiar's had this issue from their inception in 1901 until they introduced their first product for sealing paint in 1951 or 1952 when after Frank Meguiar Jr., (the founder) passed away in 1950. After Frank's passing, Meguiar's introduced their first wax - M16 Professional Paste Wax. (I know the back story about this too)




    So the above was my advice and recommendations at that RUPES International Sales Meeting was at some point to introduce multiple ways of sealing the paint so they had a wide selection of products in this category to satisfy all their customer's preferences. (Yes - some people still like to use a wax or a sealant although it seems everyone wants a ceramic paint coating )


    To test out the new Mark III polisher I didn't need to do a traditional 3-step all I needed was to buff out an entire car. The Corvette detail was a freebie for the owner letting us use the Vette for a video and because it was in very good condition, after washing and taking a BLACKFIRE Clay Mitt to the paint all I needed to do to perfect the paint was hit it with a quality cleaner/wax. Technically Pinnacle Jeweling wax is MORE than a cleaner/wax because Nu Finish is a cleaner/wax and it will NOT do to scratch-sensitive clearcoats paints like on this Corvette what Pinnacle Jeweling Wax will do so it's not fair to lump the PJW with Nu Finish and all of the other basic cleaner/waxes on the market.


    Here's my write-up for washing and decontaminating the Corvette used in this article.

    Review: BLACKFIRE Synthetic Clay Mitt Cleaner





    So yep.... went outside the RUPES system because at this time RUPES does not have a one-step on the market. I do know in time, this will change.


    Nice comment Mark, you enabled me to share a plethora of information.



  2. Likes fightnews liked this post
  3. #12
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    Re: Review: RUPES Mark III BigFoot 21 Polisher by Mike Phillips

    Awesome explanation. Thanks Mike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Sure, glad to. My goal is to always educate and I'm willing to put my experience and opinion on the front line for anyone to agree with or disagree with.





    The old adage


    Less is more


    I definitely true for some things. Not my gas tank or my bank account.


    When using a PURE wax or PURE sealant, in this context, the word pure means NON CLEANING. Then in this example you are SUPPOSED to be applying a product like Meguiar's #26 or Pinnacle Souveran Paste Was using the less is more technique BECAUSE the paint you are SUPPOSED to be applying these types of non cleaning products should already be in new, excellent or show car condition and thus all you're trying to do is lay down a thin uniform layer of product.

    So yeah, less is more. Overusing the product would be simply wasting the product.


    Now here's what I wrote - note the part I made bold





    When using any quality cleaner/wax of as some of you like to call it, an AIO or All-in-One, you want plenty of what's in the cleaner/wax ON the surface WORKING for you.

    This can include,

    • Abrasives
    • Lubricating agents
    • Chemical cleaners
    • Solvents
    • Waxes or any type of protection ingredients




    In context, if you're using an AIO or cleaner/wax, you're SUPPOSED to be working on neglected paint, that is paint that has defects like,

    1. Swirls
    2. Scratches
    3. Water spots
    4. Oxidation



    Thus you need the things I listed above working in conjunction WITH the pad, tool, time and technique to remove the defects and leave the surface both polished and protected.


    IF you underuse the product when working on this type of paint then you're diminishing the overall results you can achieve and investing a lot more time to get the job done.


    What I always write when talking about cleaner/waxes, or cleaner/sealants or AIOs or jeweling waxes, is you want to use the product HEAVY or WET --> this means you use plenty of product. You are not ridiculous and use so much product it's spraying and splattering all over the place, but you don't use 3 Peas Sized Drops. That would be ridiculous. And anyone telling you this is simply still learning.


    I actually met a recognized Pro Detailer a few months ago getting ready to start buffing on very neglected paint. Right in front of me he applied 4 peas sized drops. Still way to LITTLE product for the paint he was working on. I let him buff this first section and then wipe off the residue to inspect the results. He basically buffed to a dry buff due to so little product used. Keep in mind, anytime you buff to a dry buff on scratch-sensitive clearcoats you risk micro-marring the paint. That's working backwards in my book.


    Then I politely shared with him what he was doing and what he should be doing. He politely told me he was always told to use 3 pea sized drops. That's an example of bad information simply being regurgitated or parroted in the blogosphere and the results is everyone that is YouTube Trained & Certified simply don't really know what they are doing.

    I cover all of this in all of my classes, car detailing classes and boat detailing classes and with boats it's even MORE important to use a product heavy or wet because dry oxidized gel-coat absorbs some of the liquids in the product as you're working the surface so you automatically lose some original lubrication and chemical cleaners to the gel-coat. And same thing applies when working on oxidized single stage paint.


    Great questions!

    Thanks you for asking! I hope my explanations make sense.




    p.s.

    Just to give due credit where credit is due, it is Meguiar's that originally assocated the word PURE with non-cleaning polishes and non-cleaning waxes.




  4. #13
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Review: RUPES Mark III BigFoot 21 Polisher by Mike Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by jbodrich1 View Post
    Awesome explanation. Thanks Mike!

    Thank you. That's what I do. Detail cars and awesome explanations.

    Basically doing my best to teach people how to detail a car with a keyboard.



  5. Likes dlc95 liked this post
  6. #14
    Junior Member yello430's Avatar
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    Re: Review: RUPES Mark III BigFoot 21 Polisher by Mike Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Sure, glad to. My goal is to always educate and I'm willing to put my experience and opinion on the front line for anyone to agree with or disagree with.





    The old adage


    Less is more


    I definitely true for some things. Not my gas tank or my bank account.


    When using a PURE wax or PURE sealant, in this context, the word pure means NON CLEANING. Then in this example you are SUPPOSED to be applying a product like Meguiar's #26 or Pinnacle Souveran Paste Was using the less is more technique BECAUSE the paint you are SUPPOSED to be applying these types of non cleaning products should already be in new, excellent or show car condition and thus all you're trying to do is lay down a thin uniform layer of product.

    So yeah, less is more. Overusing the product would be simply wasting the product.


    Now here's what I wrote - note the part I made bold





    When using any quality cleaner/wax of as some of you like to call it, an AIO or All-in-One, you want plenty of what's in the cleaner/wax ON the surface WORKING for you.

    This can include,

    • Abrasives
    • Lubricating agents
    • Chemical cleaners
    • Solvents
    • Waxes or any type of protection ingredients




    In context, if you're using an AIO or cleaner/wax, you're SUPPOSED to be working on neglected paint, that is paint that has defects like,

    1. Swirls
    2. Scratches
    3. Water spots
    4. Oxidation



    Thus you need the things I listed above working in conjunction WITH the pad, tool, time and technique to remove the defects and leave the surface both polished and protected.


    IF you underuse the product when working on this type of paint then you're diminishing the overall results you can achieve and investing a lot more time to get the job done.


    What I always write when talking about cleaner/waxes, or cleaner/sealants or AIOs or jeweling waxes, is you want to use the product HEAVY or WET --> this means you use plenty of product. You are not ridiculous and use so much product it's spraying and splattering all over the place, but you don't use 3 Peas Sized Drops. That would be ridiculous. And anyone telling you this is simply still learning.


    I actually met a recognized Pro Detailer a few months ago getting ready to start buffing on very neglected paint. Right in front of me he applied 4 peas sized drops. Still way to LITTLE product for the paint he was working on. I let him buff this first section and then wipe off the residue to inspect the results. He basically buffed to a dry buff due to so little product used. Keep in mind, anytime you buff to a dry buff on scratch-sensitive clearcoats you risk micro-marring the paint. That's working backwards in my book.


    Then I politely shared with him what he was doing and what he should be doing. He politely told me he was always told to use 3 pea sized drops. That's an example of bad information simply being regurgitated or parroted in the blogosphere and the results is everyone that is YouTube Trained & Certified simply don't really know what they are doing.

    I cover all of this in all of my classes, car detailing classes and boat detailing classes and with boats it's even MORE important to use a product heavy or wet because dry oxidized gel-coat absorbs some of the liquids in the product as you're working the surface so you automatically lose some original lubrication and chemical cleaners to the gel-coat. And same thing applies when working on oxidized single stage paint.


    Great questions!

    Thanks you for asking! I hope my explanations make sense.




    p.s.

    Just to give due credit where credit is due, it is Meguiar's that originally assocated the word PURE with non-cleaning polishes and non-cleaning waxes.



    Thanks for that explanation. I recently purchased some Rupes wool pads for my Rupes machine, and the video said use 3 pea sized dollops of product. Thank you for clarifying that for me! I get so many different instructions, it's hard to separate the good from the not so good.
    www.forzablitz.com
    twitter: forzablitz

  7. #15
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    Re: Review: RUPES Mark III BigFoot 21 Polisher by Mike Phillips

    Nice review mike. I'm looking forward to using my mark3 15. If the pad stalling is minimal I might get the 21 down the road. I feel the pad stalling on long throws makes them not really worth using but I've only had 1 so far the G15.

    I bought the jeweling wax and I would love to use it this memorial day but it's going to be pollen season and the dust attraction with carnuba is crazy on my car. I still might use it anyway lol.

    Any way nice job,

    You would think these polish companies would advise people use more polish not less just from a business perspective. I have seen the pea size drop thing though. I think it's from carpro essence because if you use it like a normal polish it would be to hard to remove cleanly and leave high spots. Idk

  8. #16
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    Re: Review: RUPES Mark III BigFoot 21 Polisher by Mike Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Yes. You are correct. Using a non-RUPES product with RUPES tools would be absolutely considered working outside the "system".


    Thank you for pointing this out as it give me the opportunity to add and explain your comment to those that might not know what we are talking about.

    First - in the RUPES world, RUPES is a system, not a tool. That's why I titled my RUPES book the way I did. As a Veteran of the NXT vs Zaino Wax Wars - I don't type a single word that is not intended and has purpose.

    The RUPES BigFoot Paint Polishing System





    And when it comes to teaching RUPES as a system, I am the only NON-RUPES employee that is true to their brand. I ALWAYS teach RUPES as a system in all my car detailing classes. ALWAYS. I do this as a professional courtesy to Guido Valentini, the owner and President of RUPES as well as all his stellar employees. Below is Guido and myself at RUPES factory in Milan, Italy.


    Meet Guido Valentini the Presidente of Rupes



    In fact - I am very confident I have MORE RUPES detailing classes documented with pictures and the cool cars I use for my RUPES classes than any other Instructor outside of RUPES and even among all RUPES employees. There's a benefit to knowing how to work with pictures on the Internet as well as knowing how to write. I started creating a list of classes 4 years ago and have not updated it since. It would take me at least a day or longer to add all the RUPES classes I have documented to this list.

    List of RUPES BigFoot Detailing Classes at Autogeek




    Heck - even when Yancy and I went to Waxstock in England and I taught a Roadshow Class there I showed RUPES as a SYSTEM - This means I packed all the tools, pads and chemicals I would need and shipped them there and then shipped them home again.

    Pictures: Roadshow Class at Waxstock in England!







    The above all said - RUPES at this time does not have an AIO on the market "yet". I'm sure they will at some time. When I was a guest at the 2014 International Sales Meeting at RUPES in Milan, Italy, I was asked to make a presentation during the meeting and a part of my presentation was I recommended that moving into the future, RUPES should introduce,

    1. A traditional Carnauba Wax
    2. A synthetic sealant
    3. A ceramic paint coating
    4. One-step cleaner/wax



    And the reason I gave RUPES for offering all of the above categories is to offer something for everyone. Some of their customers may want a ceramic paint coating while some may want a traditional carnauba wax and/or a cleaner/wax. In 2014 when I made this recommendation (Jason Rose was still at Meguiar's) and RUPES did not have a large selection of car care chemicals outside their 5 compounds and polishes. And the thing is - if you only offer products for PAINT CORRECTION - you force your customer's to seek out products for SEALING the paint from your competitors. Meguiar's had this issue from their inception in 1901 until they introduced their first product for sealing paint in 1951 or 1952 when after Frank Meguiar Jr., (the founder) passed away in 1950. After Frank's passing, Meguiar's introduced their first wax - M16 Professional Paste Wax. (I know the back story about this too)




    So the above was my advice and recommendations at that RUPES International Sales Meeting was at some point to introduce multiple ways of sealing the paint so they had a wide selection of products in this category to satisfy all their customer's preferences. (Yes - some people still like to use a wax or a sealant although it seems everyone wants a ceramic paint coating )


    To test out the new Mark III polisher I didn't need to do a traditional 3-step all I needed was to buff out an entire car. The Corvette detail was a freebie for the owner letting us use the Vette for a video and because it was in very good condition, after washing and taking a BLACKFIRE Clay Mitt to the paint all I needed to do to perfect the paint was hit it with a quality cleaner/wax. Technically Pinnacle Jeweling wax is MORE than a cleaner/wax because Nu Finish is a cleaner/wax and it will NOT do to scratch-sensitive clearcoats paints like on this Corvette what Pinnacle Jeweling Wax will do so it's not fair to lump the PJW with Nu Finish and all of the other basic cleaner/waxes on the market.


    Here's my write-up for washing and decontaminating the Corvette used in this article.

    Review: BLACKFIRE Synthetic Clay Mitt Cleaner





    So yep.... went outside the RUPES system because at this time RUPES does not have a one-step on the market. I do know in time, this will change.


    Nice comment Mark, you enabled me to share a plethora of information.


    I bought the rupes book you wrote. I haven't read it yet because I'm not going to be able to detail for at least a month. I don't want to get myself all hyped up and end up taking time off work to detail lmaoo. But soon

    Edit: quick question. Did you apply the jeweling wax to the whole car then remove it or go panel by panel?

  9. #17
    Super Member dlc95's Avatar
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    Re: Review: RUPES Mark III BigFoot 21 Polisher by Mike Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by fightnews View Post
    Nice review mike. I'm looking forward to using my mark3 15. If the pad stalling is minimal I might get the 21 down the road. I feel the pad stalling on long throws makes them not really worth using but I've only had 1 so far the G15.

    I bought the jeweling wax and I would love to use it this memorial day but it's going to be pollen season and the dust attraction with carnuba is crazy on my car. I still might use it anyway lol.

    Any way nice job,

    You would think these polish companies would advise people use more polish not less just from a business perspective. I have seen the pea size drop thing though. I think it's from carpro essence because if you use it like a normal polish it would be to hard to remove cleanly and leave high spots. Idk
    As per the recent Rupes webinar on YouTube, rotation is secondary to oscillation when it comes to defect removal.

    They said that the rotation works with the oscillation to reduce the likelihood of a repeating pattern of an abrasive grain / pad.

    That is why disabling the anti-spin feature on their 21, 15, and Duetto tools works against their intended use. Bypassing the anti-spin engagement slows down oscillation (if I remember correctly) - their main component of defect removal.

    So... Considering all that, the pad stall should present less of an issue with a high orbit tool than a small orbit tool. Even when we compound by hand, our hand follows an oscillation pattern with zero rotation. This still affects the paint. Even at my fastest, I'm not going to come anywhere near the oscillation speed of even speed 1 on a 21 MK1 at around 2000.

    And when using Rupes gel compounds on their foam pads, they start with four drops on a 6" pad, and reload with two....

    Both points are very counter intuitive to what we've been shown over the years.

    The concept is so foreign thay a lot of us just use the tools, insert washer, use aftermarket pads / liquids, and hammer away on paint.

    I've said before that this system has a pretty steep learning curve.

    Best of luck with the new 15!

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  11. #18
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    Re: Review: RUPES Mark III BigFoot 21 Polisher by Mike Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by dlc95 View Post
    As per the recent Rupes webinar on YouTube, rotation is secondary to oscillation when it comes to defect removal.

    They said that the rotation works with the oscillation to reduce the likelihood of a repeating pattern of an abrasive grain / pad.

    That is why disabling the anti-spin feature on their 21, 15, and Duetto tools works against their intended use. Bypassing the anti-spin engagement slows down oscillation (if I remember correctly) - their main component of defect removal.

    So... Considering all that, the pad stall should present less of an issue with a high orbit tool than a small orbit tool. Even when we compound by hand, our hand follows an oscillation pattern with zero rotation. This still affects the paint. Even at my fastest, I'm not going to come anywhere near the oscillation speed of even speed 1 on a 21 MK1 at around 2000.

    And when using Rupes gel compounds on their foam pads, they start with four drops on a 6" pad, and reload with two....

    Both points are very counter intuitive to what we've been shown over the years.

    The concept is so foreign thay a lot of us just use the tools, insert washer, use aftermarket pads / liquids, and hammer away on paint.

    I've said before that this system has a pretty steep learning curve.

    Best of luck with the new 15!
    I don't think so, I doubt Mike would agree with that either. If the pad doesn't rotate you're not doing anything.


    That's why we mark backing plates

  12. #19
    Super Member dlc95's Avatar
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    Re: Review: RUPES Mark III BigFoot 21 Polisher by Mike Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by fightnews View Post
    I don't think so, I doubt Mike would agree with that either. If the pad doesn't rotate you're not doing anything.


    That's why we mark backing plates
    You're confusing "secondary" and "doesn't rotate".

    YouTube

  13. #20
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    Re: Review: RUPES Mark III BigFoot 21 Polisher by Mike Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by dlc95 View Post
    You're confusing "secondary" and "doesn't rotate".

    YouTube
    I dont think so. He is bluntly saying that oscillation is more important than rotation as far as removing paint. It's right in the bold where I quoted his exact words.

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