Something increadible happened on Autopia.org

Ok so here are the threads, my comments will be down bellow.

Message from what appears to be the moderator of Autopia.org:

A review of 3D Waterless Wash was removed because it wasn't stated that the product was part of the free product promotion:

"THREAD EDITED by Todd Helme-

We understand that 3D is currently offering free products in exchange for reviews. We have remained open, but asked repeatedly for anybody who is posting their review of 3D's products in order to prevent their credit card from being charged to please post this in the reviews. Back in the day, this forum of advertising was known as shilling, and was greatly looked down upon.
Please read this thread before using our forum as an opportunity for you to make money (in effect by getting free products).
Doing reviews in exchange for products..."


Response from the poster of the review:

That was my review that was closed down!! Now they are following every forum i posted on to report me and take my reviews down. Unbelievable.


What I think:

I am infuriated by this. I don't know why I care, I have only been on Autopia 3 times and did not find anything Worth staying on for more than a minute each time. But I guess injustice is something that gets my blood boiling.

So this guy takes the time to write a review about a product, something that will very likelly be useful to many of the members, and what does he get in return for his efforts: his post is deleted and the moderators go on a crusade against him on other forums? OH MY ####### GOD!

Has this kind of bullshit ever happened here? I see plenty of review here and I find most of them very useful. I think people who take what must take about an hour of their lives to give all the info they can about a product are a blessing for ANY forum. This is one of the main reason to be part of a community like this, the sharing of information. Why would they chastise someone on Autopia.org for doing this completelly beyond my ability to understand.

First of all who the hell cares if the product was free or not? Does not having to pay for something invalidates your experience using it?

Anyway, I am curious to know what you guys think about this. I rarelly get worked up about stuff on the internet but this just has me totally mad. I'm I missing something or are they totally stupid on Autopia.org?

Do you have your forums correct?

Also, it has been stated many times to mention if product was free for posting a review.

Also, not sure about being followed but wherever I saw the waterless review, he would post a semi-negative review as a rinseless, I mentioned to OP to state he is experimenting as using that product outside the directions since it is not a rinseless.

I don't follow him, I only go to many forums and even though I told him, he kept using that same review and not mentioning it is not a rinseless product.

That is not fair for the product, I honestly started feeling forums were spammed and he didn't care to review properly ....only for a free product.

My post was removed from one forum when I asked for the rinseless directions (there is no rinseless directions).

Not sure if I'm one of the ones he is not happy with.

you've got the wrong forum, and the forum you're referring to is/should be AUTOPIAFORUMS.COM which is the sister site to
AUTOGEEK.NET/AUTOGEEKONLINE.NET here.

AUTOPIA.ORG (the web's original car care forum) has no affiliation with with the above sites!

what i get from this is they think the 3d brand its giving free stuff in exchange for good propaganda that will boost up sales. And they do not want them in their forum ,or at least if thats the case they want them to be upfront about it

(wondering how can they know)

OP - I don't know why you're getting so worked up about it.

Nobody is saying he can't post a review to help fellow members out. He just has to follow the rules that's all. If he got free product in exchange for his review, he should simply state that in his post. Easy really!

Rules are rules IMO... :)

*EDIT*
I agree it's not cool that he's being followed onto other forums. That's a bit much..

What a strange, strange circle this is. This carrot-and-stick trick has been around for a long time, and I guess it depends on your perspective as to whether it's proper or not. I will say that sending your CC info by non-secure means where it will be held hostage until you post 4 satisfactory (I mean UNBIASED) reviews is a new twist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Calendyr

First of all who the hell cares if the product was free or not? Does not having to pay for something invalidates your experience using it?

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Yes, it does. It's about human nature, especially when completing the task entitles you to another "free" product.

So instead of letting this die there where you saw it you brought it here to make it even bigger?!?!?!?!



I really think people should learn to find out all the facts before they start posting and creating drama... Keep Calm, Push away from the keyboard, and Detail on...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VISITOR

you've got the wrong forum, and the forum you're referring to is/should be AUTOPIAFORUMS.COM which is the sister site to
AUTOGEEK.NET/AUTOGEEKONLINE.NET here.

AUTOPIA.ORG (the web's original car care forum) has no affiliation with with the above sites!

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Never said it did ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davey g-force

OP - I don't know why you're getting so worked up about it.

Nobody is saying he can't post a review to help fellow members out. He just has to follow the rules that's all. If he got free product in exchange for his review, he should simply state that in his post. Easy really!

Rules are rules IMO... :)

*EDIT*
I agree it's not cool that he's being followed onto other forums. That's a bit much..

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I totally agree with following rules... that is not why it got me so worked up yesterday. My issues are that his post was deleted instead of the moderator asking him to modify it to follow the rules and that he was being stalked on other forums.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wheelzntoys

Do you have your forums correct?

Also, it has been stated many times to mention if product was free for posting a review.

Also, not sure about being followed but wherever I saw the waterless review, he would post a semi-negative review as a rinseless, I mentioned to OP to state he is experimenting as using that product outside the directions since it is not a rinseless.

I don't follow him, I only go to many forums and even though I told him, he kept using that same review and not mentioning it is not a rinseless product.

That is not fair for the product, I honestly started feeling forums were spammed and he didn't care to review properly ....only for a free product.

My post was removed from one forum when I asked for the rinseless directions (there is no rinseless directions).

Not sure if I'm one of the ones he is not happy with.

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Don't know. I did not see the review since it was deleted. Now, if he has issues with one aspect of the product, that's one thing. But in my mind it doesn't justify deleting his post either.

As for using the same review for different forums, well at least he did not loose his work (time it took to write it) so to me that is a good thing. I can see him not wanting to re-write a review several times and simple copy/paste on the forums he visits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

What a strange, strange circle this is. This carrot-and-stick trick has been around for a long time, and I guess it depends on your perspective as to whether it's proper or not. I will say that sending your CC info by non-secure means where it will be held hostage until you post 4 satisfactory (I mean UNBIASED) reviews is a new twist.

Yes, it does. It's about human nature, especially when completing the task entitles you to another "free" product.

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I don't know how that free product deal works. If what you are saying is true (sounds bizzare to me to say the least) then I can understand a little bit more why it should be frowned upon. On the other hand, freedom of expression is something I believe is a right that should not be removed for any reason in a free society. So if they have an issue with his post, why not simply make a follow up post saying that this review is very likelly biased for x and y reasons?

The only time I consider post deletion acceptable on a forum is when someone is trying to promote a competing service/product to the one the forum owner is offering. And if someone is being very offensive to someone else on the forum. But deleting posts because the information may not be correct or may be biased sets a very bad precedent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TroyScherer

So instead of letting this die there where you saw it you brought it here to make it even bigger?!?!?!?!

I really think people should learn to find out all the facts before they start posting and creating drama... Keep Calm, Push away from the keyboard, and Detail on...

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Well this is something Worth discussing. No such thing of too much information in my mind. Someone here brought a good point, it still doesn't excuse the deletion but at least I can see a valid concern now.

Since I don't know anyone on that other forum I don't have much interest talking with them about it. I value the opinions of people here so that is why I brought it up here.

Nothing incredible at all but it did get me to open your thread.

Well if you spent any time over there on autopia care care forums you'd know that this has been requested many times by Todd. If you just showed up to dump a review to get your free stuff they don't want that with out full disclosure. Really a small, fair request to make. In fact i am surprised they allow them at all.

If it were me moderating. I'd do the same thing at the least. These forums cost money to run. They are about sales and education. Make no mistake, this is a business. I wonder how you would feel if input an ad for my detailing business on your front lawn so you customers could see it while you were trying to sell them? All they ask is for you to be upfront. Not too much to ask. I learn a lot on them and have grown to appreciate the honest community. These reviews for free product are a great marketing idea and litter all the boards 3d reviews that I never know if they are legit or forced becasue of free product so they are ineffective to me.

I much prefer the review of someone who plunked down hard earned money on an item. My 2 cents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JSFM35x

Nothing incredible at all but it did get me to open your thread.

Well if you spent any time over there on autopia care care forums you'd know that this has been requested many times by Todd. If you just showed up to dump a review to get your free stuff they don't want that with out full disclosure. Really a small, fair request to make. In fact i am surprised they allow them at all.

If it were me moderating. I'd do the same thing at the least. These forums cost money to run. They are about sales and education. Make no mistake, this is a business. I wonder how you would feel if input an ad for my detailing business on your front lawn so you customers could see it while you were trying to sell them? All they ask is for you to be upfront. Not too much to ask. I learn a lot on them and have grown to appreciate the honest community. These reviews for free product are a great marketing idea and litter all the boards 3d reviews that I never know if they are legit or forced becasue of free product so they are ineffective to me.

I much prefer the review of someone who plunked down hard earned money on an item. My 2 cents.

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Very well said Jeff!! This stuff is "old hat" nothing incredible at all. Just another person not thinking things through before taking action on something. The world is full of this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Calendyr

... On the other hand, freedom of expression is something I believe is a right that should not be removed for any reason in a free society....

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Freedom of expression has nothing to do with a private forum.

It's as simple as this:

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.
"Shill" typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that they are an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller (or marketer of ideas) for whom they are secretly working.

I helped pinpoint these twits on other forums I participate in and did so proudly. Had he come on a forum that I moderate he would have been banned in addition to deletion of the garbage he posted.

Quote:

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I don't know how that free product deal works. If what you are saying is true (sounds bizzare to me to say the least) then I can understand a little bit more why it should be frowned upon. On the other hand, freedom of expression is something I believe is a right that should not be removed for any reason in a free society. So if they have an issue with his post, why not simply make a follow up post saying that this review is very likelly biased for x and y reasons?

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EXACTLY! You don't know how it works so who are you to get up on your hind legs for something you don't even comprehend? The persons (there were two) that made the posts admitted they were given free product to provide a review after they were cornered and also admitted they were wrong in doing so. Would these circumstances offer an honest review? That is highly questionable is it not? Autopia is one of the very few detailing forums that even allows talking about a product that they don't carry which is extremely gracious. They abused this privilege by not saying they were supplied the product upfront. It was dishonest and that deserves swift retribution which was administered.

The entire incident also speaks to the lowly ways of the company that came up with this scheme. I, for one, would never buy a product they made after witnessing this. Many others feel the same way. They shot themselves in the foot.

Holy Moly!!!!

There is a LOT to consider in reading this thread....

1) Was the "positive" review biased by the lure of the free product (or refund of their purchase), or ......

- On AGO we have promotions where we "agree to review" a product (honor code), BUT the offer of the free product is not contingent on a positive review, neither is it one where we purchase the product and then get a refund upon linking the review. From what I have read in previews posts looks like a pure and simple marketing scheme, so the review serves the company, not the intended audience. Don't get me wrong, it may be a good product and may deserve the positive review but the stench of "possible deception" is too strong for me. Having said that, this leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the forum participants and is not good practice for any forums. Just imagine if AGO was FLOODED with these kinds of "questionable reviews"!?!?!

2) Todd Helme following the guy on other sites to make trouble for him!?

- I SERIOUSLY doubt that he would have the time or the desire to cyber-stalk this reviewer or anyone else, especially considering that the forum community would be more than happy to expose the shady practice of "paid reviews". He did do his job in maintaining the quality and integrity of his forum. As a moderator, it is his duty, and so far he has done a very good job. Granted I spend a LOT more time on this forum (compared to his) but that does not change the fact that the work I have seen him do is top notch. Conversely, I have seen quite a few threads disappear on AGO and agree 100% with the process, when done to maintain the quality and integrity of the environment we share. How would you feel if you were to peruse the forum and 90% of the threads were just a bunch of confrontational BS?

3) Freedom of expression. Lord knows we could dive into some major depths with this one! As it was expressed before, it is a private forum and the only "rights" you have is the "rights" they offer. You are not protected by the constitution in your ability to destroy the serene environment they provide for us (paid for and managed by). But don't see this as an infringement of ones rights, since they do not prevent anyone from exercising their right to leave the forum. By the way, on a private forum, majority rules.... one may have the right to post a propaganda thread, but we have the right to be protected against such inflammatory BS, and I believe that the majority is better served by a quality, serene, bias free forum rather then by a questionable, controversially filled, and confrontational environment. This would make me leave!!

As it was described prior, this forum is one of the many tools AG and PBMG has to promote and market their products (hence the reason they frown upon linking other commercial businesses), but they are extremely fair in allowing us to express our UNBIASED opinions and experiences on other products. AND they have done a very nice job (on this site and the sister one) in weaning out the "questionable" compensated reviews. We can all smell them a mile away, and this sours our experience (as members). Again, the reviewer may have had a genuine experience with the product but the fact that it was a compensated review stinks enough that I personally don't want it to litter the board I come to read daily.

Palm Beach Motoring Group and its subsidiaries do not condone putting up reviews when they are written just for the sake of obtaining FREE products.

This thread is being closed.