DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.
Here's a list of the most common problems,
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.
2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.
Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,
"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"
But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.
Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.
Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.
This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.
Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.
Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.
Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,
As these to things build up on the face of the pad they become gummy and this has a negative affect on pad rotating plus makes wiping the leftover residue on the paint more difficult. To maintain good pad rotation you want to clean your pad often and always wipe-off any leftover product residue off the paint after working a section. Never add fresh product to your pad and work a section that still has leftover product residue on it.
Pad Cleaning Articles
Why it's important to clean your pads often...
How to clean your foam pad on the fly
How to use the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...es/buffing.gif
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Useful info. Always good to remind people of proper technique.
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dougaross
Useful info. Always good to remind people of proper technique.
This is actually a re-write of an article I wrote a few years ago on MOL. It's been updated and hopefully improved.
:)
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Thanks, Mike, for the always informative and useful tips you give. I had to work through just about all the problems you mentioned. (Not that I think I'm an expert now, I'm still trying to refine my techniques.) I'm looking forward to the day in the future when I can come down to Florida and attend AG's detailing classes.
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JSMet
Thanks, Mike, for the always informative and useful tips you give. I had to work through just about all the problems you mentioned. (Not that I think I'm an expert now, I'm still trying to refine my techniques.) I'm looking forward to the day in the future when I can come down to Florida and attend AG's detailing classes.
Hope to see you here in the future...
We go over all of the above in the Detailing 101 Class.
:)
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Man....I thought this was gonna be a thread on how to change brushes and such. :doh:
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr Oldz
Man....I thought this was gonna be a thread on how to change brushes and such. :doh:
Sorry to let you down...
One comment on this thread on MOL was to include this trouble shooting guide with every DA Polisher sold... I thought that was a pretty good idea to help ensure your customers that don't hang out on forums have a guide to check themselves against if they run into problems.
:)
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek
Sorry to let you down...
One comment on this thread on MOL was to include this trouble shooting guide with every DA Polisher sold... I thought that was a pretty good idea to help ensure your customers that don't hang out on forums have a guide to check themselves against if they run into problems.
:)
That is actually a great idea! Users guide to DA polishing. :)
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
glad I read this thread, I am sure my results will be much better now :)
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2011Mustang5.0
glad I read this thread, I am sure my results will be much better now :)
The original version of this dates back to 2004 on MOL
:D
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Great info as always Mike. I have Meguiar's v2 DA system with the original pads, the 5.5 microfiber pads ( 2 cutting, 2 finishing ) and I get amazing results with them everytime. Now I have been looking in getting more pads, some more aggressive ones, also light ones and jewel ones as well, Mike, which ones do you think will it work best for the system I got? Thanks in advance. Btw, your articles are amazing and well written, not boring to read at all. You always give us the information that we need and most of the time you go beyond explaining to us what works and what doesn't work. Great job.
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Francisco
Now I have been looking in getting more pads, some more aggressive ones, also light ones and jewel ones as well, Mike, which ones do you think will it work best for the system I got?
I'd look into adding some LC 5.5" Flat pads, orange, white, black and blue. Also the Hydro-Tech pads work really well. I kind of like the Crimson pad for both waxing and finish polishing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Francisco
Thanks in advance.
Sorry I just now found your post, about 7 months late...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Francisco
Btw, your articles are amazing and well written, not boring to read at all. You always give us the information that we need and most of the time you go beyond explaining to us what works and what doesn't work. Great job.
Thank you... I try...
:)
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Old thread but I still laughed at myself for my first post in this thread.
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
If you're new to machine polishing with any type of DA Polisher...
Be sure to read through the first post of this thread BEFORE you try to use a polisher the first time.
It will help you to avoid all the common mistakes and if you are not seeing the kind of results you hope and dream about then come back and re-read it. See if there are any areas where you can tweak your technique...
Then go out into the garage and do this...
:buffing:
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grifftech
glad I read this thread, I am sure my results will be much better now
This should be a print-out that's included in every dual action polisher sold with the link to this article and the title of this article included at the top of the print-out.
It's amazing what Google indexes and helps people to find with just a few key words...
:)
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek
This should be a print-out that's included in every dual action polisher sold with the link to this article and the title of this article included at the top of the print-out.
It's amazing what Google indexes and helps people to find with just a few key words...
:)
I wanted to add what a huge help this article was to helping me get working with a new DA polisher having no experience.
I think the biggest area I would emphasize is the amount of product and the cleaning of the pads.
I ended up ordering a few extra pads because it is so much easier to keep going when you hit your stride than waiting for pads to clean.
As a non-pro running the washing machine and waiting for the pads to air dry certainly moved this from 'an afternoon' to 'a few days' once I had the necessary pads, but not 5-6 of them to keep going one after another...
Ordering some pad cleaning solution also works wonders to break up that product in the pads. Well worth the extra few bucks.
One question I do have is on the 'hardness' of different paints that I have seen mentioned a few times. Is there any kind of a listing or resource that tries to categorize what is considered hard or soft paints over the years by manufactures?
I could always come here and ask I guess, but I already have a buddy who has asked if I could help him with his truck... which is probably the curse of all detailers...
Thanks for all the info. The threads like this and the videos did a lot to give confidence before I even started that it would be possible to do it myself.
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noamd1109
I wanted to add what a huge help this article was to helping me get working with a new DA polisher having no experience.
That's the goal. It's best to read before a person starts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noamd1109
I think the biggest area I would emphasize is the amount of product and the cleaning of the pads.
Two very key factors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noamd1109
I ended up ordering a few extra pads because it is so much easier to keep going when you hit your stride than waiting for pads to clean.
More pads are better. Not only can you buff out a car faster while doing better work, (better defect removal), you're pads will last longer overall because you're not punishing them as much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noamd1109
Ordering some pad cleaning solution also works wonders to break up that product in the pads. Well worth the extra few bucks.
Working clean is so important considering how easy it is to scratch a modern clearcoat finish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noamd1109
One question I do have is on the 'hardness' of different paints that I have seen mentioned a few times.
Is there any kind of a listing or resource that tries to categorize what is considered hard or soft paints over the years by manufactures?
Not really. There is a thread here on the forum somewhere that someone started to try to create a chart but the problem with this is...
- Paints change from the paint manufacturer.
- Car manufactures change paints.
- Some cars are repainted or at least have repainted panels next to factory painted panels.
Best thing to do is a test spot and dial in a system that works. I've buffed out thousands of cars in my life without any kind or chart or reference and I do a Test Spot on any car I've never previously worked on to get a feel for how hard or soft the paint is before buffing out the entire car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noamd1109
I could always come here and ask I guess, but I already have a buddy who has asked if I could help him with his truck... which is probably the curse of all detailers...
Starting a dedicated new thread for any car you're working on is a great way to get lots of good feedback fast from other forum members that often times will have experience working on the same car you're asking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noamd1109
Thanks for all the info. The threads like this and the videos did a lot to give confidence before I even started that it would be possible to do it myself.
Thank you for posting the feedback above, it's much appreciated as it shows we're successful at reaching our goal.
:dblthumb2: :dblthumb2: :dblthumb2:
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
***Update***
This article shares the most common mistakes people make when first starting out and the remedies to correct their technique so they get great results.
Yesterday, when my friend Curt dropped off his 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme for our class this weekend we talked about the scratches in the paint on his car. He told me he purchased a polisher from Autogeek, all the pads and products but wasn't having any luck getting the swirls and scratches out of the car.
Here's a video I took showing the current condition of the paint on his car and a Test Spot I performed using the LEAST AGGRESSIVE METHOD. I was able to remove about 95% of the swirls and scratches so that only the deepest defects remained. These deeper defects are called RIDS and Tracers.
https://www.facebook.com/Mike.Philli...2399255769581/
Before he left, I offered to show him the correct technique for using the polisher he bought and asked him to watch and see if I did anything different than what he was doing.
I did a NORMAL test spot doing 8 section passes to an area about the size of a 16" by 16" section of paint. (All the people and places that tell you to work a 2' by 2' area are simply wrong - be careful who you get your information from)
After watching me and seeing the results, here's the things he said he wasn't doing right.
- Too low of speed - he was using the 3-4 speed.
- Did not mark his backing plate - didn't know the pad had to rotate and without the mark wouldn't know if it was rotating.
- Only made 3-4 passes over the paint but not uniform overlapping passes like is standard for paint correction.
- Not enough downward pressure.
NOTE: All of the above issues are addressed in the first post of this article.
While I believe abrasive technology is the MOST important aspect of polishing paint, technique is certainly also an important factor.
:)
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Re: DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
:updated:
Shared here,
machine polishing fail - ?
:)
