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Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
My goal is to find a spray on, stand alone sealant or wax, that can easily be removed without a polisher, that gives at least 6 months of protection. Currently I use Car Pro Reload which falls pretty short of 6 months. I want a spray on vs liquid or paste solution to minimize the friction you need to apply to avoid swirling. Perhaps I have unreasonable expectations.
Many of the reviews for the New Turtle Wax Hybrid COATING (it says Coating on the bottle) are from detailers that were invited to a wine and dine launch event. On most of the reviews they talk about this product like it is a sealant (temporary) vs a coating (permanent). TW verified with me that to remove it, you have to compound it off (even if it shows no signs of water beading by putting it through a torture test as YouTubers love to do
I want a temporary sealant because there might be something else I may want to try in the future or not like this prodcut, I may want to start with fresh paint after a year to ensure a good bond, and finally many cars have partial Paint Protection Film that makes compounding it off an issue (scratching the PPF and voiding the warranty).
I feel that reviewers are talking about this product incorrectly. They should be comparing it other permanent coatings such as Cquartz or something like that and making it known that this is a coating not a sealant and will have to be compounded off should they wish to remove. Most consumers don't know how to compound off old product.
They should address questions like "why wouldn't you pay a little more and get 2 years of protection from competitive product?" and make more accurate comparisons when doing "shoot out" comparisons.
Again, Still on the hunt for a pray sealant vs a coating that can last (show water beading) 6 months or so.
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Asking any spray sealant to last 6 months on a single application is a pipe dream.. You’d be hard pressed to ask even the most durable liquid or paste sealant to last that long.
The key is re application before it fails. If you’re able to re apply a spray sealant every 1-2 weeks or at the very least once per month you should be able to stretch it to that 6 months you’re looking for.
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
TW verified with me that to remove it, you have to compound it off
Not to be picky about words but I am a Word Guy.
I have to wonder if it could simply be polished off.
There's a lot of difference in the aggressiveness level between a compound and a polish. In my how-to books, I use 4 groups or categories to separate compounds and polishes.
I state in it, and I believe from experience and from what I've seen in the industry, that you can separate compounds and polishes into at a minimum, 4 categories. Any companies product can be placed into one of the below categories.
- Aggressive or coarse compound
- Medium cut polish
- Fine cut polish
- Ultra fine cut polish
My guess is, the spray-on Turtle Wax Hybrid Coating can be removed with a
- Foam polishing pad
- Any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher
- A polish - Medium cut or Fine cut
Just a guess...
I don't like turning something that should be very simple into rocket science personally.
:)
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
My goal is to find a spray on, stand alone sealant or wax, that can easily be removed without a polisher, that gives at least 6 months of protection.
Oh yeah... since this is your first post,
Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:
I approved your pending account this morning.
:)
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
My goal is to find a spray on, stand alone
sealant or wax, that can easily be removed
without a polisher, that gives at least 6
months of protection.
I want a temporary sealant because there
might be something else I may want to try
in the future or not like this prodcut,
I may want to start with fresh paint after a
year to ensure a good bond...
•Being that Sealants serve as sacrificial barriers...
I consider all of them ‘temporary’. Will any of
them perform that service for up to 6 months?
-Pat answer is: Depends; depends on how they
are “touched” (see Mike Phillips’ article) during
their expected life-cycle.
*************************************
•As to assuring that a Sealant (or any other
LSP, for that matter) is totally removed:
-Yes, polishing (an abrasive method) guarantees
that will happen.
-However there are other means to remove
LSPs—especially those nearing the end of their
expected life-cycles. Products labeled as wax-
removers, paint-cleaners, and pre-wax cleaners
act to chemically remove remnants of LSPs.
{The question that then arises is: Can they
guarantee to totally remove every iota of
an existing LSP, or remnants thereof?}
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
I feel that reviewers are talking about
this product incorrectly.
•Maybe they are.
-Perhaps they should follow your example,
and contact the TW spokespersons for the
gospel truth?
Bob
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike Phillips
Not to be picky about words but I am a
Word Guy.
I have to wonder if it could simply be
polished off.
There's a lot of difference in the aggressiveness level between a
compound and a
polish. In my how-to books, I use 4 groups or categories to separate compounds and polishes.
I state in it, and I believe from experience and from what I've seen in the industry, that you can separate compounds and polishes into at a minimum, 4 categories. Any companies product can be placed into one of the below categories.
- Aggressive or coarse compound
- Medium cut polish
- Fine cut polish
- Ultra fine cut polish
My guess is, the spray-on Turtle Wax Hybrid Coating can be removed with a
- Foam polishing pad
- Any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher
- A polish - Medium cut or Fine cut
Just a guess...
I don't like turning something that should be very simple into rocket science personally.
:)
Thank you Mike for the welcome.
You can see TW's exact words here in the comments section on THEIR channel: YouTube
They state "compound"
Turtle Wax's target audience would seem to be the consumer as that is who buys most of their products. This is how they get throughput and the large sales. They talk about "easy" which I feel does not align with how you address detailers (they do things that require more skill).
IMHO the process you described below may be simple for any detailer reading it, but above the scope of what a consumer (even on the enthusiast level like me) understands are is comfortable doing. And what about doing everything you stated on PPF? TW states to put this product on everything: glass, plastic, PPF. Many cars have partial or full PPF these days. Even they say not do polish on PPF film in those comments.
I would consider myself as an enthusiast level consumer. TW's ideal candidate for this product. A consumer like me has really dumb questions, like "How do I even know if this is polished off enough that its removed so I don't go further than I need to?" With COATINGS, reviewers and marketing typical speak of the importance of paint prep, decontaminating, etc. I find that lacking so far with the reviews and videos of this product. The product seems a bit more advanced than that, and more along the lines of something like CQartz.
I would settle with "it can be removed without a polisher with our polish by hand" This would seem to align with the ease of use for consumers more. I would also settle for "Don't worry about this so much. After 8 months just apply another product on top of this after an IPA wipe down. You would probably only get an extra week or two of endurance if you applied to bare paint. Other products will bond to other products and people worry too much about this"
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Well for me - I use Gyoen Can Coat for the goals you are suggesting:
1 - Fairly easy to apply
2 - Length of durability = it may not make 6 months - but I see 3 with some simple maintenance
It will need to be polished / compounded off for removal - but to me that's a difficult option to overcome if you are asking for durability.... How can you ask a product to be durable if it comes off easily with just simple wiping or readily available cleaners?
FYI - I just applied it as my Winter Protection - and I did it after Rinseless Wash with WG Uber (in 5o Deg temps) - only a wipe down with Carpro Eraser - and it went on no issue.... Obviously the more prep you do the better the results - but that's true of any wax/polish/sealant/coating....Im the MAN
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
So what exactly happens if it’s re applied on top of a a pre existing layer of itself? Please tell me someone has at least tried it? Or is everyone too busy running torture tests that will never happen in real life? Lol
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
With COATINGS, reviewers and marketing
typical speak of the importance of paint prep,
decontaminating, etc. I find that lacking so far
with the reviews and videos of this product.
The product seems a bit more advanced than that,
and more along the lines of something like CQartz.
•I’m going to go out on limb and state,
unequivocally, that it’s not a Coating along
the lines of something like CQuartz. Instead:
-The manufacturer (Turtle Wax) calls this product
a synthetic Wax—a product based on man-made
ingredients; in reality: a Sealant. A Sealant that’s
formulated with some SiO2 molecules suspended
in its emulsion. No more. No less.
•Using a even a mildly abrasive Polish, by hand
or machine, will totally remove the biggest lot
of all the Sealants currently on the market.
-I know of no scientific reason that this
Sealant should be different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
Turtle Wax's target audience would seem to
be the consumer as that is who buys most of
their products.
Understatement of the year...:props:
Since I have no skin in the game:
I’m not going to fret about this Company’s
marketing practices and the audience(s)
they have, or may not have targeted.
Bob
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
Thank you Mike for the welcome.
You can see TW's exact words here in the comments section on THEIR channel:
YouTube
They state "compound"
Wow. That's really aggressive. I've had to remove our BLACKFIRE Pro Ceramic Coating but was able to remove it using only a polish and it was on the paint like super glue. Put it this way, I could not rub it off with itself or a solvent. I had to abrade it off but still - only used a fine cut polish.
Over the years, my training and experience in the online forum world, (sometimes a tick nasty), I've honed my writing skills and ALWAYS pick and choose each and every word I use publicly specifically and purposefully.
Maybe they don't have a Mike Phillips writing their video scripts or any wording for any other social media touch points? I've found my writing skills to be a real asset and strength for Autogeek (and previously Meguiar's) when compared to any peer or competitor.
There is value to real-world experience, even when it comes to writing accurate information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
Turtle Wax's target audience would seem to be the consumer as that is who buys most of their products. This is how they get throughput and the large sales. They talk about "easy" which I feel does not align with how you address detailers (they do things that require more skill).
I simply keep things real. My background is detailing since before this thing called the Internet and to this day I continue to detail cars. As simple as it may seem, actually doing the thing I "talk" or in this case, "type" about, keeps my writhing and speaking fresh and above all accurate.
I see a lot "dialog" in various communications including newsletters where the words used by the writers are simply not accurate and my guess is a lot of what is said and typed comes from people that don't actually have a background in detailing and probably don't even really detail entire cars. There's something to be said and value for being the real-deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
IMHO the process you described below may be simple for any detailer reading it, but above the scope of what a consumer (even on the enthusiast level like me) understands are is comfortable doing. And what about doing everything you stated on PPF? TW states to put this product on everything: glass, plastic, PPF. Many cars have partial or full PPF these days. Even they say not do polish on PPF film in those comments.
I would consider myself as an enthusiast level consumer. TW's ideal candidate for this product. A consumer like me has really dumb questions, like "How do I even know if this is polished off enough that its removed so I don't go further than I need to?" With COATINGS, reviewers and marketing typical speak of the importance of paint prep, decontaminating, etc. I find that lacking so far with the reviews and videos of this product. The product seems a bit more advanced than that, and more along the lines of something like CQartz.
And back to being a word guy, when you say "you" - you're referring to Turtle Wax, not me specifically? I have not described how to do anything in this thread. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
I would settle with "it can be removed without a polisher with our polish by hand" This would seem to align with the ease of use for consumers more.
I completely agree.
"WE" in the online detailing world may have "polishers" but a large company should not "assume" Joe Consumer also owns a polisher or polishers.
And the ability to remove a consumer grade product using a quality polish by hand would be understandable - if said product had to be removed. If it MUST be remove by machine an also by machine using a true COMPOUND - this is a jump from enthusiast to professional in my opinion.
3 reasons why,
1: It should not be assumed everyone owns a quality polisher. By quality polisher, a Porter Cable is the minimum. Some type of old school orbital for $35.00 at Walmart doesn't qualify. A person would also have to have the right pads for this tool or any tools that works as good or better than it. (The PC is pretty much an entry level free spinning random orbital polisher. It's a great tool, but still entry level).
2: Anyone that reads my articles or replies to this forum, or has taken a class that I have taught - knows a talk a LOT about abrasive technology. And by this I mean - there's GREAT abrasive technology and CRAP for abrasive technology. There is no in-between. Things with abrasive technology, that would include compounds polishes and cleaner/waxes or AIOs, they either work or they don't. By this I mean, they can either remove a defect without leaving their own defect or they can remove defects but leave behind their own defects in the place of the original defects. Abrasive technology has come a long way but there's still junk on the market. To assume the average consumer knows this stuff or owns products that use great abrasive technology is back to assuming.
3: From my article - Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips - both consumers and professionals alike should always try to use the least aggressive option when working on factory car paint for ANTYING because it's so thin to start with.
My guess is - whoever chose the word compound simply meant polish or a "light" abrading product, not a hardcore body shop compound. Especially for a spray-on product.
The good news is, if this new Turtle Wax product really requires a true compound to remove it completely that's a testimony to how tough it is and how strong of a bond it creates to your car's paint.
My guess is - it can be removed simply by using a fine cut polish, by hand or when using a simple free spinning, random orbital polisher.
I have not used it or any of the new products yet. I think we have them in the warehouse, but I've been a tick busy shooting B-roll video for all the segments we shot at My Classic Car last week and even this morning and again tomorrow.
Always busy...
Besides, that, I'm not a "YouTube Influencer" so I was not invited to the grand reveal of these products. I think I was filming with Dennis Gage at the time anyway. Not a bad gig if you can get it. Maybe some day I'll move up the ranks to become an influencer? To date I'm just a blue collar working class dog with more hard-core accurate how-to information shared publicly longer than anyone else in this industry that's still breathing. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
I would also settle for
"Don't worry about this so much. After 8 months just apply another product on top of this after an IPA wipe down. You would probably only get an extra week or two of endurance if you applied to bare paint. Other products will bond to other products and people worry too much about this"
I agree with the above and it's probably accurate. I'm 100% confident the chemist behind these new products know what they are doing and created formulas for Joe and Joanne Consumer. We in the online word tend to take things very literal as we should but that doesn't mean these product not only work as advertised but are also EASY to use.
:)
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Diamond Dog how do you prep for a new application of a sealant now?
A good sealant that is just cured fully is pretty tough to remove if you where to not be happy with it. When you go with it and it's on it's last legs it's easier to remove. Still though you have the polish to clean the paint thoroughly for the next application so it gets to last as long as possible. Some use the same sealant or topper to have a little longer stretch with your protection. But the extra layer often wears down faster than if you prep with a polishing or paint cleaner.
I would look at the new Turtle Wax Hybrid Solution Ceramic Spray Coating as a very durable sealant. Sure it need to be polished off but that usually most sealants needs to be if they are still on the paint. If you decide to apply another product over it which I also think is fine to do when you feel like the performance from it is so degraded that it needs to be reapplyied. It's just that you don't get as long durability from it than if you apply it on a polished and preped paint. This is something common if you decide to just clean the paint with a wash and maybe a chemical decon step. If it's worn enough the chemical decon steps may be enough. Then you have the bonded contaminants that you still have to deal with.
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
OP, are you referring to the TW Seal N Shine? Wouldn't an IPA wipe down remove it?
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NJNinja
OP, are you referring to the TW Seal N Shine?
I could be wrong...but:
From what has been posted so far,
I’m inclined to say it’s not TW S&S.
Bob
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike Phillips
And back to being a word guy, when you say "you" - you're referring to Turtle Wax, not me specifically? I have not described how to do anything in this thread. :)
:)
I was referring to when you wrote this:
"My guess is, the spray-on Turtle Wax Hybrid Coating can be removed with a
Foam polishing pad
Any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher
A polish - Medium cut or Fine cut "
I am not saying you laid out the steps. But my point was even the simple "words" you used in your description of equipment imply a more complex process which are no big deal for detailers. But for someone like me, rather intimidating.
If these tools are needed to correctly deal with this product, how do you think it would sell if TW just told the truth "This is more robust than a sealant. In the future you may need to use a polisher, the correct polish, and the correct pads to remove it". All the reviews just seem to talk about how easy it is, don't take into consideration PPF, and you see all these "torture tests" being done on it.
I am hoping as time goes on that more of these dimensions are talked about and YES BY MORE THAN THE INFLUENCERS THAT WERE WINED AND DINED AND GETTING ALL THIS ATTENTION FROM TW which I must admit feel are a bit biased at times (not all, but a lot of them)
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FUNX650
I could be wrong...but:
From what has been posted so far,
I’m inclined to say it’s not TW S&S.
Bob
NO, I am referring to the new Hybrid COATING where TW says it needs to be compounded off on their You Tube Channel in the comments (I provided the link)
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
I was referring to when you wrote this:
"My guess is, the spray-on Turtle Wax Hybrid Coating can be removed with a
Foam polishing pad
Any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher
A polish - Medium cut or Fine cut "
I am not saying you laid out the steps. But my point was even the simple "words" you used in your description of equipment imply a more complex process which are no big deal for detailers. But for someone like me, rather intimidating.
Now I see what you're saying. I didn't lay out any specific steps for this new product, just outlined a simple theoretical process should one need it. :)
And I agree. To this day, there are millions of car owners aka do-it-yourselfers that are still working by hand and do not own a quality polisher let along feel confident to compound their car. I meet these people all the time. Just because a person has the financial ability to go purchase a brand new Audi or BMW or even Ford, Chevy or Dodge truck does not also mean they are experienced and even outfitted to machine compound the paint on this high dollar ticket types of transportation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
If these tools are needed to correctly deal with this product, how do you think it would sell if TW just told the truth "This is more robust than a sealant. In the future you may need to use a polisher, the correct polish, and the correct pads to remove it". All the reviews just seem to talk about how easy it is, don't take into consideration PPF, and you see all these "torture tests" being done on it.
I'm sure they mean well. I've been involved in a lot of new product launches in my career and one thing I know, everything goes through an evolution, even an product launch. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
I am hoping as time goes on that more of these dimensions are talked about and YES BY MORE THAN THE INFLUENCERS THAT WERE WINED AND DINED AND GETTING ALL THIS ATTENTION FROM TW which I must admit feel are a bit biased at times (not all, but a lot of them)
And to my previous point - everything goes through an evolution. Used to be forums were king, now it's YouTube and Instagram and Facebook groups, etc. The latest evolution is Tik Tok but after watching some news stories I'll hold off on downloading this App just in case there's any truth to the stories about how it "can" harvest all your data.
Evolution - everything is in a state of change...
:)
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Given time more will come out about the TW ceramic line, don't think it as been a week yet since the release. As far as your wining and dining comment, I have no issue because it was well stated that TW invited them and TW reps did presented the products, as far as bias part I chalk that up to introduction of a new product line from a big time player.
TW has released some solid products over the last few years that perform at a value price and I have little doubt the Hybrid line will be decent. As far as comparing the line to CQ coatings I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. At the $15-20 entry point it's unreasonable to compare but that doesn't mean that the complete Hybrid line isn't a good value for what it is, time will tell to an individual if the Hybrid line is worth it
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
With all this talk, I'll have to get my hands on a bottle and test it out.
Then I can have a real-world opinion.
But to try to smooth over any fears, I'm very confident that this product can be used as directed and the benefits claimed will be realized.
If a person must remove it, for whatever their reasons, a light polish by hand or machine will likely do the trick. Again, whoever used the word compound to describe the removal process was probably speaking in generalities, not specifics. That's my domain. :laughing:
Rest assured, this thread will be seen and read by people at Turtle Wax and it's possible we will see some clarification for anything that needs clearing up.
:dblthumb2:
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vobro
TW has released some solid products over the last few years that perform at a value price and I have little doubt the Hybrid line will be decent.
As far as comparing the line to CQ coatings I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. At the $15-20 entry point it's unreasonable to compare but that doesn't mean that the complete Hybrid line isn't a good value for what it is, time will tell to an individual if the Hybrid line is worth it
Great points.
:dblthumb2:
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike Phillips
Evolution - everything is in a state of change...
:)
I can't agree more and that is why people may want to remove this product. TW may also read this and make a "hand remover" for it, if anything so people can get a clean base surface for re-application. There are things like graphene on the horizon or even other manufacturers coming out with Ceramic products.
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vobro
Given time more will come out about the TW ceramic line, don't think it as been a week yet since the release. As far as your wining and dining comment, I have no issue because it was well stated that TW invited them and TW reps did presented the products, as far as bias part I chalk that up to introduction of a new product line from a big time player.
TW has released some solid products over the last few years that perform at a value price and I have little doubt the Hybrid line will be decent. As far as comparing the line to CQ coatings I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. At the $15-20 entry point it's unreasonable to compare but that doesn't mean that the complete Hybrid line isn't a good value for what it is, time will tell to an individual if the Hybrid line is worth it
Very good points. From a non detailer perspective (if you want to know what a non detailer's journey loosk like):
Just 6 years ago, It was $700 (which to me was a lot of money for this) including some light paint correction to get my car Ceramic Pro Coated. It had a 10 year warranty No one could really do it or access the products except Pro Detailers. My detailer was still doing $40 car washes and lots of paint correction with a final coat of Powerlock. This cost about $350. PPF was super expensive and the films were OK. So expensive, it wasn't even an option for me
I still had to top off the coating with Reload to maintain great beading and shine so I wondered, "If I have to apply a product to my car regularly, why did I spend all this money?" This dimension is not covered under the 10 year warranty and not sure how many ceramic coats are completely redone by detailers at lets say year 8 to take advantage of those warranties. There were only 2 authorized Ceramic Pro installers in the area
3 years ago when I got a new car, there are all these other options. 2 year warranties, 5 year, 10 year. To get a 10 year, the price is now $1400. I rarely see my detailer doing car washes anymore. There are many more brands besides Ceramic Pro. I hear of people paying 2k for coatings. I notice he is doing a lot more PPF. I decide to just use a sealant (Powerlock) and save money and the Powerlock works OK. Meanwhile these consumer grade prodcuts that you can apply yourself start showing up. Most are advertise to last 1-2 years.
6 months ago I have a NEW, pretty expensive car. I am told how the technology for PPF has advanced and see it on cars. I can barely tell its on. So I go with PPF on the front of the car. I use Car Pro Reload for everyting as I dont need much pressure to apply and dont have to worry about it on the trim or PPF.
There are so many Ceramic manufacturers at this point in time, I lose track. I am watching more and more detailing videos on You Tube. My detailer sends a email blast telling people that they no longer do just car washes but they will honor car wash passes people have bought in the past. He removes all references to the word "wash" from his logo, domain name, marketing. He tells me all his business is Cermic or Quartz coatings and films.
Today - Companies like Turtle Wax are making durable products that are so easy to apply the role of the detailer for Cermics is unknown and its unknown of these high prices will be accepted in the future without a new break through professional only product. You can apply cermaic with decent results for little money and there are tons of people showing videos of great results. Every manufacturer HAS to make something with the words "Ceramic" in it to compete these days.
Price doesn't really indicate the quality of products. Companies like TW who are not starting the process from scratch (Ceramic development) and have tons of resources and buying power can now make a great product that out performs products of the past. It may even be better product for less money than previous leaders in Ceramics. Remember how expensive microfiber or foam cannons used to be when they first came out and how the technology has only evolved and prices less expensive?
My point is that I think this TW Hybrid is more of a coating than sealant from my perspective (non detailer) and that it may indeed compete with Cquartz. Personally if I wanted a permanent solution like a coating I would rather just to the Cquartz and pay the extra money so I don't have to reapply as much.
My other point is that there will probably be something new coming out soon so I want something that I can easily remove or apply over a competitive product without complex processes (polishing or compounding and dealing with my PPF)
There is one big influencer on You tube and I asked about removing the TW Hybrid. He gets a little snippy with me and asks "Why would you ever want to remove it?" (he also has videos as he brags how he was a consultant to TW for this product) - Because of this I start questioning the reviews on this product and hope more people that are not the people invited to the event comment on this product, do realistic, relevant comparisons, and really tell us how it should be used. And this is what prompted my original post and my desire to not have such of a "permanent" solution.
Wish TW would have asked some some consumers like me their opinions along side of the detailer influencers on Youtube. I also wish some kind person in S Cal would just show me how to use a polisher "hands on" and get this over with (ha ha)
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
From a non detailer perspective (if you want
to know how a non detailer's journey is):
My point is that I think this TW Hybrid is more
of a coating than sealant from my perspective
(non detailer)
Again:
I’m asserting that this TW product is not
more of a Coating, than a Sealant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
and that it may indeed compete
with Cquartz.
Of course it can compete with CQuartz;
but I’ll bet a dollar to a donut hole that
it will wind up sucking hind-tit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
Personally if I wanted a permanent solution
like a coating I would rather just to the
Cquartz and pay the extra money so I don't
have to reapply as much.
You may not have to re-apply CQuartz
as much, or as often, but CQuartz is not
promoted as being a permanent Coating.
********************************
• Here’s the dealio:
Whether I’m Right; or Wrong...I’m saving
today’s TW-dialogue to compare to any/all
future TW ‘reportings’.
The End (?)
:)
Bob
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FUNX650
Again:
I’m asserting that this TW product is not
more of a Coating, than a Sealant.
Of course it can compete with CQuartz;
but I’ll bet a dollar to a donut hole that
it will wind up sucking hind-tit.
You may not have to re-apply CQuartz
as much, or as often, but CQuartz is not
promoted as being a permanent Coating.
********************************
• Here’s the dealio:
Whether I’m Right; or Wrong...I’m saving
today’s TW-dialogue to compare to any/all
future TW ‘reportings’.
The End :)
Bob
It says COATING on the bottle. Plus TW is saying you need to compound (not polish) it off so this is why I disagree and think it should be compared to other coatings and why I started the OP. This is especially an issue on PPF
I agree with you that it will not perform as well as CQuartz and this is the reason for my whole OP as I feel it should be compared more with these type of products.
https://thumbs2.imagebam.com/fb/1d/4...1325823549.jpg
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Oh boy...
I wouldn't worry about a product under $20 lasting a year... or TWO, LOL. So how about this, grab that Jaskson out of your wallet, get change back and try it out, it's very easy to use as it's been compared to TW seal and Shine, called IT on steroids.
Just my .02 cents worth but TW has been on a roll lately so I see no reason to take them at their word here, this isn't your Father's TW[emoji118]
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
It says COATING on the bottle.
When Meguiar's launched NXT Tech Wax, the word on the label was WAX but technically it's a synthetic paint sealant.
At the retail level, you have about 3-5 seconds to get Joe Consumer's attention or the scan past to the next label.
From a retail point of view, it is a coating as it is going to coat-over the surface.
I say use it and when you see the beading falling off, apply a fresh coat.
:)
-
Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Klasse Act
Oh boy...
I wouldn't worry about a product under $20 lasting a year... or TWO, LOL. So how about this, grab that Jaskson out of your wallet, get change back and try it out, it's very easy to use as it's been compared to TW seal and Shine, called IT on steroids.
Just my .02 cents worth but TW has been on a roll lately so I see no reason to take them at their word here, this isn't your Father's TW[emoji118]
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I'm not worrying about it lasting a year. If you read my post, I would be happy with 6 months. The compounding it off to remove is more of the issue and that put this product in a different classification of products than spray waxes and suggest more reviews under those parameters. If I could remove this with an IPA wipedown (especially on PPF), this would be a non issue. Try it. don't like it, simply wipe it off like most sealants.
I was also hoping to encourage more reviews on this aside from the people invited from the event and some non detailers to review as well.
I dont even care about the cost. I would pay 2-3 times what they are asking for the right product
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Klasse Act
Oh boy...
I wouldn't worry about a product under $20 lasting a year... or TWO, LOL.
So how about this, grab that Jaskson out of your wallet, get change back and try it out, it's very easy to use as it's been compared to TW seal and Shine, called IT on steroids.
Well said.
After reading this thread, I need to try this product.
Problem is - I need a tester car.
:)
-
Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Btw cool screen name, Bowie fan I take it[emoji848]
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
I'm not worrying about it lasting a year. If you read my post, I would be happy with 6 months. The compounding it off to remove is more of the issue and that put this product in a different classification of products than spray waxes and suggest more reviews under those parameters. If I could remove this with an IPA wipedown (especially on PPF), this would be a non issue. Try it. don't like it, simply wipe it off like most sealants.
I was also hoping to encourage more reviews on this aside from the people invited from the event and some non detailers to review as well
I guess in the short term you would have to remove it more aggressively but going down the road it's not going to be so much of an issue, like we tried to say though, just try it, lots of variables here, "like" is pretty broad[emoji351][emoji362][emoji118]
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Klasse Act
Btw cool screen name, Bowie fan I take it[emoji848]
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Wow, you picked that up!! Not many do
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
Wow, you picked that up!! Not many do
Yeah I'm from the D, Rock City USA! No "Panic in Detroit" here[emoji106]
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
I can't agree more and that is why people
may want to remove this product. TW may
also read this and make a "hand remover"
for it, if anything so people can get a clean
base surface for re-application.
•There are hundreds, maybe thousands,
of “hand removers” all ready out there.
-Turtle Wax even has a bunch of ‘em.
Bob
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
I tried 3 in 1 hybrid detailer not impressed..leaves oily film and bit hard to remove..could be weather not sure but first use not impressed..
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Klasse Act
I guess in the short term you would have to remove it more aggressively but going down the road it's not going to be so much of an issue
This is my thinking as well, Rog.
At first, it may require "Spiders from Mars" to remove it, but down the road could be removed by a "China Girl". ;)
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
It says COATING on the bottle.
Plus TW is saying you need to compound
(not polish) it off so this is why I disagree
and think it should be compared to other
coatings and why I started the OP.
This is especially an issue on PPF
I agree with you that it will not perform as
well as CQuartz and this is the reason for
my whole OP as I feel it should be compared
more with these type of products.
https://thumbs2.imagebam.com/fb/1d/4...1325823549.jpg
•Your prerogative to agree/disagree...
-But you’re not even in the ballpark, IMHO.
Bob
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diamond Dog
It says COATING on the bottle. Plus TW is saying you need to compound (not polish) it off so this is why I disagree and think it should be compared to other coatings and why I started the OP. This is especially an issue on PPF
I agree with you that it will not perform as well as CQuartz and this is the reason for my whole OP as I feel it should be compared more with these type of products.
[/URL]
The term coating and ceramic are thrown around too loosely these days.
In fact what makes a product a coating? If a product had 0.01% SiO2 does that make it a coating/ceramic? What I’m getting at is that there are no clean definitions of a coating.
With that said there are categories of coating type products.
Your more robust semi permanent coatings like Cquartz, GTechniq l, etc. These will always perform better than a spray on product and have been referred to a true coating.
Then there are coating lite products like Cquartz Lite or Gyeon CanCoat. They may not last as long but they have that coating like behavior.
Then comes the SiO2/ceramic infused sealants which are often referred to as maintenance products. Far less “ceramic” ingredients and nowhere near as durable yet can have coating like behavior. These products contain more polymers than ceramic in their chemical make up. This is where TW falls into. So not it is not a true coating and it can’t hold a candle to one.
If most coatings can be removed with a medium cut polish or in some cases a light cut polish after a few months then what’s to say TW can not be removed the same way.
I will go out on a limb and say a product like Meguiar’s M205 will remove it with ease.
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Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
So many Assumptions about TW products that most in this thread haven’t even tried yet.. What’s up with that?
Just my opinion, but I doubt TW would put this much effort into releasing a complete line with as much as they’ve put into all sides of it in the year 2019 and somehow be way off as far as their terminology.. Not only does TW on its own deserve a bit more respect, but if you need any real proof all you have to do is watch their latest demo video [posted in this thread]? To see that they know what the heck is going on in the real world of detailing.
They’d be a laughing stock if these products couldn’t be at least in the same ballpark as “coatings” of today.. And to say a spray on coating could never compare to a dedicated boutique PITA to apply so called real coating is quite simply being closed minded. Detailing products are evolving at never a before seen rate these days.. I have no doubt that they’ve either already invented it or are planning it’s release for the right time.
And as far as it not being realistic for a TW consumer product to last anywhere near a year? How bout that Endura Tire Coating? People suddenly forgot about that? Hands down the Best dang tire product the world has ever seen. Nuff said.
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Re: Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
I'm going to use Meguiar's Hybrid Ceramic Wax, Mothers CMX Ceramic Spray Coating, and Turtle Wax Ice Seal N Shine as my examples because it's too early to be definitive about the new TW Ceramic Spray Coating. None of these three consumer sprays in my testing at one coat had anywhere near the same performance and longevity of a full coating like CQuartz UK 3.0. When I placed one coat of each on the paint and let them run without toppers on the ungaraged daily driver, CQUK absolutely blows them out of the water. HCW and SNS were on par with each other and slowed down greatly from their initial performance, but still survived at 5 months. CQUK looks like I just applied it yesterday at 5 months old. The gap in performance between the spray market and the true ceramic market is massive when you put them under the same conditions, even products like the Adam's Ceramic Spray Coating and IGL Premier were severely outmatched by CQUK.
However, you can still get awesome performance with regular maintenance out of all of those sprays. That's the main benefit, the ease of use in reapplication that will extend protection to your desire. But if you ask me what's the best way to remove any wax/sealant/coating, my answer is abrasives. Reload in the short term will laugh an IPA wipedown right off the paint. SNS can outperform some coatings in chemical resistance in the short term, and even HCW and CMX will be very resistant against IPA or strip wash soaps. Abrasives have always been the best method to better ensure product removal, I haven't found a magic safe solvent that has convinced me to not prep all of my product testing with abrasives, I use the panel wipe as both a pre-polish and post-polish process. So the idea of needing that stronger method in order to ensure a clean slate is not a new concept and isn't reserved just for true ceramic coatings.
I'd be very surprised if you actually needed a heavy cut compound to remove the new TW Spray Coating. In my opinion using a polisher with something like Meguiar's M205/210 or Sonax Perfect Finish would easily abrade it from the paint like they do with CQuartz. The debate is a flat water sheet doesn't guarantee the product has been removed, it's possible you can abrade partially into the coating and remove most of the hydrophobics without fully removing it entirely. The more likely scenario is to run chemical dump tests until the product is fully flat and yet still not fully remove the entire layer. The other debate is just because you don't see a hydrophilic water sheet, it doesn't mean the product hasn't been fully removed, bare paint has differing degrees of surface tension when completely unprotected. The degree of certainty that we've removed the product is more clear with abrasives and the heavier you go the more certainty you have, but I've been satisfied in many cases against coatings with only needing a light/medium abrasive with a polishing pad for removal.
My expectations for TW's new spray coating is not for it to compete against CQuartz and comparable full ceramics, but for it to be more competitive in the spray sealant category. Jimbo and Pan also had early access to the lineup prior to release, they will have more insight into their long term performances and this is probably the reason why they're more likely to compare against products in the spray sealant lineup as well. That's my guess, but for the rest of us we're going to need more time to get longer term results in, and I'm looking forward to seeing just how well it can hold up!
-
Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loach
I'm going to use Meguiar's Hybrid Ceramic Wax, Mothers CMX Ceramic Spray Coating, and Turtle Wax Ice Seal N Shine as my examples because it's too early to be definitive about the new TW Ceramic Spray Coating. None of these three consumer sprays in my testing at one coat had anywhere near the same performance and longevity of a full coating like CQuartz UK 3.0. When I placed one coat of each on the paint and let them run without toppers on the ungaraged daily driver, CQUK absolutely blows them out of the water. HCW and SNS were on par with each other and slowed down greatly from their initial performance, but still survived at 5 months. CQUK looks like I just applied it yesterday at 5 months old. The gap in performance between the spray market and the true ceramic market is massive when you put them under the same conditions
So if I’m reading this correctly, you’re leaving the new TW Spray Coating out of this testing and out of your opinion as of today? Because sure it’s alot easier to say none of those 3 products deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as CQuartz dedicated coating, but why not compare apples to apples? Or at least what we’re all currently interested ln comparing... The brand new TW products.
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Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?
Every few years comes along something that’s known as a game changer... And until the masses discover it on their own through 1st hand experience, it’s initial reputation gets built on assumptions and heresy, doubts, etc..
Just imagine how hard it must’ve been to bring the 1st real widely used rinseless wash concentrate to market? For example Megs D114 was a sales failure and was eventually discontinued.. Proof that it’s not always easy to change the game and convince the masses to even pay attention, but it can happen.
I’m not saying this exact TW line is a bonafied game changer, I’m just saying that anything is possible. We should at least give things an honest shake before assuming it’s not in the same league.