Which polisher to get, NEXT

Hello to all-


The griots has been my go to for 5-6 years of detailing family cars. I really like the way they work. I just got a replacement griots polisher from griots, no questions asked. Thanks to them for their amazing customer service. My wife got me a torq random orbital 2 years ago. I really don't like it, how it bogs down on anything with a curve etc. So MY QUESTION: Should I go bigger or smaller for the next polisher to add to arsenal? I am debating between adding a flex 3401 and using small backing plates on griots for smaller areas. OR do I keep griots as main workhorse and add a small rupes bigfoot nano ibrid?
Not sure where I should have posted this, admins feel free to move to move as needed...

thanks
TD

My first DA is the PC7424, my second DA is a Flex 3401.
Wait for the new version since that is the machine you want.

Some LC Force pads for the 3401 will do you no wrong.

Tough to tell you what to do?

Do you have the need of correcting really tiny areas often to warrant the purchase of the Nano Ibrid?

I might be inclined to say for the money spent, go with the Flex 3401, and use the GG6 and/or the Torq with smaller Plates-Pads.

The 3401 with additional Flex 4.5" Backing Plate might then cover the majority of your work, save some time and effort since you won't be knocking yourself out with marking Backing Plates, and fighting the loss of rotation for paint correction.

Maybe somewhere along the way, pick up a baby Griots 3" cheap. It can be outfitted with both 3" and 2" Plates-Pads. It is my understanding that even if you cannot provide a bill of sale for a Griots machine if it conks out at some future point, Griots will replace it if faulty.

Have you looked into the G21

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Flex 3401 hands down if you’re a somewhat experienced and has handled buffing before, and even for a new person is still good, you may find it to be a bit too heavy.
If you want to learn and at the same time have a buffer with some comparable bite as the top of the line ones in the dual action category, then I would highly recommend the porter cable PC7424XP

Thanks to all for your feedback. As most have eluded to, I think the 3401 is the right way to go for me. Not a ton of small spots to work on, I could borrow an ibrid as needed from a friend.

When is the new flex 3401 coming out?

Thanks Again,
TD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TD_05

Thanks to all for your feedback. As most have eluded to, I think the 3401 is the right way to go for me. Not a ton of small spots to work on, I could borrow an ibrid as needed from a friend.

When is the new flex 3401 coming out?

Thanks Again,
TD

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Makita PO5000C is the best forced DA side by side

If you already have a GG6
Get their HD 3in plate and some lake country Thin pro pads
Get a 21mm machine like Griot boss G21 or Rupes mark II install a 5in plate

I bought a cordless polisher. I really like it for quick-fix jobs. I have no idea how many batteries it would take to do an entire vehicle but I can, for example, polish out the hood with a cleaner wax real quick and without running electrical cords.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TD_05

Hello to all-


The griots has been my go to for 5-6 years of detailing family cars. I really like the way they work. I just got a replacement griots polisher from griots, no questions asked. Thanks to them for their amazing customer service. My wife got me a torq random orbital 2 years ago. I really don't like it, how it bogs down on anything with a curve etc. So MY QUESTION: Should I go bigger or smaller for the next polisher to add to arsenal? I am debating between adding a flex 3401 and using small backing plates on griots for smaller areas. OR do I keep griots as main workhorse and add a small rupes bigfoot nano ibrid?
Not sure where I should have posted this, admins feel free to move to move as needed...

thanks
TD

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Once you use the Flex you won't likely pick up your Griot's again.

Use your Torx with a 3" backing plate. Use your GG6 with 5" or 6" plates depending on what pads you own. Get whatever geared forced rotation polisher you decided upon.

You could do just about anything with those 3 machines

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck

Makita PO5000C is the best forced DA side by side

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I have a different opinion.

The FLEX 3401 is the best gear-driven Orbital side-by-side.


The subjective word being what a person’s definition of the word best is?


For me the word best in this context means fastest for paint correction and ability to finish out with professional quality results.


:)

Might want to wait until 09/09 just in case Griot's will announce a forced rotation polisher :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Phillips

I have a different opinion.

The FLEX 3401 is the best gear-driven Orbital side-by-side.


The subjective word being what a person’s definition of the word best is?


For me the word best in this context means fastest for paint correction and ability to finish out with professional quality results.


:)

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I've based mine on how fast both machines took out a 1000 grit
Smoothness(lack of imbalance/vibration)
Ergonomics
Machine heat
RPM is king in the world of forced, just like with rotary

Price points helped the subject too.

Makita ease of operation familiar enough to a longthrow more than a 3401, even though it can walk in situations, but less and more controllable than 3401.

Pad walk is induced by uneven pressure on each side of tool, or pad not flat..or simply pad to thin to contour to panel

Makita doesn't leave me beat up the next day like how someone would feel day after football or good workout

Makita is better on my nerves as my hands tingle easy with the 3401

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck

I've based mine on how fast both machines took out a 1000 grit
Smoothness(lack of imbalance/vibration)
Ergonomics
Machine heat
RPM is king in the world of forced, just like with rotary

Price points helped the subject too.

Makita east of operation fsimilar enough to a longthrow more than a 3401, even though it can walk in situations, bit less and more controllable than 3401.

But pad walk is induced by uneven pressure on each side of tool, or pad not flat..or simply pad to thin to not contour to panel

Makita doesn't leave me beat up the next day like how someone would feel day after football or good workout

Makita is better on my nerves as my hands tingle easy with the 3401

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I'll assume you have used both machines.

Is rotation direction the same as the Flex, or opposite? I see Makita sold here, but not this particular machine.

Looks like the Flex has the ability of using a number of different size backing plates, but am I correct the Makita only uses one, a 5"? Not that I'd personally want to go larger than 5.5" Pads, but perhaps others might for larger jobs?

Such as Pad size might be a moot point though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkD51

I'll assume you have used both machines.

Is rotation direction the same as the Flex, or opposite? I see Makita sold here, but not this particular machine.

Looks like the Flex has the ability of using a number of different size backing plates, but am I correct the Makita only uses one, a 5"? Not that I'd personally want to go larger than 5.5" Pads, but perhaps others might for larger jobs?

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I've owned all 3 forced.. clocked in many hours with 3401 and PO5000C...nit many hours clocked in in the Mille


They are both counter clockwise
Only one that is clockwise is the Mille

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck

I've owned all 3 forced.. clocked in many hours with 3401 and PO5000C...nit many hours clocked in in the Mille


They are both counter clockwise
Only one that is clockwise is the Mille

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Honestly, I knew nothing about this Makita Machine, was why I didn't mention it earlier. Sorry

It appears the Makita has the ability to switch from forced rotation to free rotation like most run of the mill D/As, is this correct?

Have you personally noted any difficulties or hitches because of this feature? Have there been instances where you preferred free rotation rather than forced for certain corrections-applications? Or no?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck

I've based mine on how fast both machines took out a 1000 grit
Smoothness(lack of imbalance/vibration)
Ergonomics
Machine heat

---

All valid points and it just goes to show what I have been sharing in the online car detailing world since I started working in this world professionally in 2002 and that is personal preference is a HUGE factor when it comes to choosing which tools is right for you.

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you Mike but just like you have your opinion and want to share it with people trying to figure which tools is best for them, I'm here to offer my opinion and also balance opinions like yours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck

RPM is king in the world of forced, just like with rotary

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While RPM is a KEY factor, when you go from rotary to gear-driven orbital another key factor is orbit stroke length.

Makita PO5000C = 5mm
RUPES Mille = 5mm
FLEX 3401 = 8mm

And I get it that to the average person looking at the numbers there's not much difference between 5mm and 8mm when you're running the buffer around the car for hours there is a difference.

My experience is I can do the hardest part, that is the correction work faster using 8mm gear-driven than 5mm gear-driven because 8mm is more aggressive in stroke size and paint removal.

It is not as smooth ad 5mm and the "smoothness" is what you give up for speed.


Now if a person trying to figure out which tool to purchase and they want smoothness over speed the 100% for sure go with a 5mm gear-driven tool. If a person wants speed over everything without the risk of holograms and paint-burning from a rotary, then again- in my experience, 8mm trumps 5mm all day long.

If this was not my experience then each time I buff out a car I would use a 5mm gear-driven tool, but that's not what I use and I am about speed. I always grab the 8mm gear-driven polishers. I did prototype testing for Makita and their PO500C, I have the MOST documented write-up for this tool on the Internet. And ANY gear-driven orbital will be faster than any free-spinning orbital OVERALL. For their own great reasons, Makita and RUPES chose to focus on smoothness over orbital stroke length and that's their choice. If they had brought out a larger stroke gear-driven tool then I would use them, but they didn't.


Everyone reading this into the future, you can read opinions like mine and Mike's all day long or watch video opinions all day long, but the ONLY way to figure out which tools is best for you, be it for smoothness or speed is to get behind each type of tool and spend HOURS buffing out entire cars and then you'll make the right decision.

And this is why I like teaching our detailing classes, I showcase ALL these tools and you buff out cars, not demo hoods. So you get real hands-on experience and I'm tell you from experience, that's one of the most popular things about our classes people like - the ability to use multiple tools and make up their own mind.

This last weekend I had people use both the Mille and the BEAST and some preferred the Mille and some preferred the BEAST. Some preferred other tools But they cam to their own conclusions from using all the tools, not by reading opinions on forums.

When you choose a tool, keep in mind you're also going to invest in pads for that tools, plus chemicals. Not a huge deal but your total investment is more than the tool, so do what you can to choose correctly before you start investing money.

Just to add, gear-driven tools don't care what type of pad you attach, they will turn, and churn and burn any pad. But pad size, thickness and weight are important factors when choosing any free spinning tools.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck

Price points helped the subject too.

---

This is accurate. The Makita PO5000C cost less than the BEAST.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck

Makita ease of operation familiar enough to a longthrow more than a 3401, even though it can walk in situations, but less and more controllable than 3401.

---

I'd agree with this for both the Makita and Mille. As you have discovered and vindicated what I wrote above, 5mm gear-driven orbital is smoother than 8mm gear-driven orbital, the trade off is abrading ability. 8mm is more aggressive than 5mm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck

Pad walk is induced by uneven pressure on each side of tool, or pad not flat..or simply pad to thin to contour to panel

Makita doesn't leave me beat up the next day like how someone would feel day after football or good workout

Makita is better on my nerves as my hands tingle easy with the 3401

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And the above characteristics you have listed I also experience and confirm. I'm not bothered physically by these things and choose raw power over smoothness. I do meet a lot of guys and some girls that don't like the FLEX 3401 due to the amount of muscle it takes to power it through a detail job. I get it. But for some of us, it's simply a non-issue.


You make good points Mike but I don't agree that 5mm is faster than 8mm for defect removal simply due to RPM. I know what I know for decades of buffing out cars. If 5mm was faster from either brand of tools then that's the tool I would grab to buff out a car fast. But from years of experience buffing out cars, I always grab 8mm if I want speed and quality.



:cheers:

And just to share because this thread will get hit a LOT....


There are 2 more roadshow classes coming up, one in Ohio and one in Pennsylvania, and one more 3-day class here in Stuart, Florida. If it works for you and you're on the fense about which tool to buy, get to one of these classes. I'm confident you'll be able to whittle your choice down after real-world, hands-on usage.

Detailing Classes, Florida Detailing Classes, learn how to detail


:)

Thank you Mike P. for some further detailed analysis and explanations between these tools.

I'd assume other factors like you say, is a personal hands on use before making an ultimate decision. I'm sure all you've mentioned are very good tools.

Factors like weight, shape, ergonomics, noise, and others, warrantees, and down the road durability.

I can remember years ago, when I was in the process of selecting a brand new Rotary Polisher, I compared the Makita and the Milwaukee TOTL models during that time period. I ultimately chose the Milwaukee on what appeared to be a heavier, more solidly built machine, perhaps wrongly thinking that heavier in weight was also greater in build quality and durability.

Maybe it is/was in that regard, but that heavy weight, akin to a boat anchor is something that does take its toll on the arms and hands also. Thus after some use, I sort of regretted the Milwaukee purchase, thinking that the Makita may have actually been a better machine for me to personally use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkD51

Honestly, I knew nothing about this Makita Machine, was why I didn't mention it earlier. Sorry

It appears the Makita has the ability to switch from forced rotation to free rotation like most run of the mill D/As, is this correct?

Have you personally noted any difficulties or hitches because of this feature? Have there been instances where you preferred free rotation rather than forced for certain corrections-applications? Or no?

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The free spin is worthless for polishing and compounding

It's perfect for wetsanding or machine applied wax/sealants

It's also the only machine you can turn into a 3in forced
There's 3 plate options, but Griot HD 3in being weighted works out well with a 3.5 HDO or 3.5 Force pad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Phillips

All valid points and it just goes to show what I have been sharing in the online car detailing world since I started working in this world professionally in 2002 and that is personal preference is a HUGE factor when it comes to choosing which tools is right for you.

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you Mike but just like you have your opinion and want to share it with people trying to figure which tools is best for them, I'm here to offer my opinion and also balance opinions like yours.





While RPM is a KEY factor, when you go from rotary to gear-driven orbital another key factor is orbit stroke length.

Makita PO5000C = 5mm
RUPES Mille = 5mm
FLEX 3401 = 8mm

And I get it that to the average person looking at the numbers there's not much difference between 5mm and 8mm when you're running the buffer around the car for hours there is a difference.

My experience is I can do the hardest part, that is the correction work faster using 8mm gear-driven than 5mm gear-driven because 8mm is more aggressive in stroke size and paint removal.

It is not as smooth ad 5mm and the "smoothness" is what you give up for speed.


Now if a person trying to figure out which tool to purchase and they want smoothness over speed the 100% for sure go with a 5mm gear-driven tool. If a person wants speed over everything without the risk of holograms and paint-burning from a rotary, then again- in my experience, 8mm trumps 5mm all day long.

If this was not my experience then each time I buff out a car I would use a 5mm gear-driven tool, but that's not what I use and I am about speed. I always grab the 8mm gear-driven polishers. I did prototype testing for Makita and their PO500C, I have the MOST documented write-up for this tool on the Internet. And ANY gear-driven orbital will be faster than any free-spinning orbital OVERALL. For their own great reasons, Makita and RUPES chose to focus on smoothness over orbital stroke length and that's their choice. If they had brought out a larger stroke gear-driven tool then I would use them, but they didn't.


Everyone reading this into the future, you can read opinions like mine and Mike's all day long or watch video opinions all day long, but the ONLY way to figure out which tools is best for you, be it for smoothness or speed is to get behind each type of tool and spend HOURS buffing out entire cars and then you'll make the right decision.

And this is why I like teaching our detailing classes, I showcase ALL these tools and you buff out cars, not demo hoods. So you get real hands-on experience and I'm tell you from experience, that's one of the most popular things about our classes people like - the ability to use multiple tools and make up their own mind.

This last weekend I had people use both the Mille and the BEAST and some preferred the Mille and some preferred the BEAST. Some preferred other tools But they cam to their own conclusions from using all the tools, not by reading opinions on forums.

When you choose a tool, keep in mind you're also going to invest in pads for that tools, plus chemicals. Not a huge deal but your total investment is more than the tool, so do what you can to choose correctly before you start investing money.

Just to add, gear-driven tools don't care what type of pad you attach, they will turn, and churn and burn any pad. But pad size, thickness and weight are important factors when choosing any free spinning tools.







This is accurate. The Makita PO5000C cost less than the BEAST.




I'd agree with this for both the Makita and Mille. As you have discovered and vindicated what I wrote above, 5mm gear-driven orbital is smoother than 8mm gear-driven orbital, the trade off is abrading ability. 8mm is more aggressive than 5mm.




And the above characteristics you have listed I also experience and confirm. I'm not bothered physically by these things and choose raw power over smoothness. I do meet a lot of guys and some girls that don't like the FLEX 3401 due to the amount of muscle it takes to power it through a detail job. I get it. But for some of us, it's simply a non-issue.


You make good points Mike but I don't agree that 5mm is faster than 8mm for defect removal simply due to RPM. I know what I know for decades of buffing out cars. If 5mm was faster from either brand of tools then that's the tool I would grab to buff out a car fast. But from years of experience buffing out cars, I always grab 8mm if I want speed and quality.



:cheers:

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Your correct it really isn't jist the RPM,
Essentially you needed 2 attributes to outcorrect the 8mm and 3401 specs

That was more RPM and more OPM

Everything is give and take

With that said I really wanted to do a side by side test with 3401 and mille as it has has more OPM but lowest orbit offset at 5.12? Bit not a noteable more amount if RPM 480 vs 535..it feels like mille corrects the slowest, but never had all 3 at the same time do confirm with a side by side via 1000 grit removal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck

The free spin is worthless for polishing and compounding

It's perfect for wetsanding or machine applied wax/sealants

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Totally agree. I was shocked and let down Makita would put a tool on the market claiming it to offer paint polishing in the free spin mode when all it can really do is oscillate a THIN sanding disc.

I also showed this in May of 2017 when I posted my review.


Review: Makita PO5000C Orbital Polisher - Gear-driven and Free Spinning - Mike Phillips


While I don't have any pictures of me using it to wetsand the roof, that is exactly what I did and for this it worked very nice in the free spin mode.


I wouldn't recommend using the gear-driven mode to wetsand "car paint" unless it's custom and thick and that's the opposite of factory paint.



:)