Horrible DA grey scale marks?!

Need some advice. I've done many paint correction jobs with my rotarys and DA's. I'm working on the 2000 corvette currently and my flex 3401 is leaving nasty da marks?!

Using m105 followed by m205. I've tried many other products and still get the same result. What the heck is going on? Using a soft black polishing pad with the m205.

Car looks beautiful, but under my light it looks like garbage. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

John
Oregon

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I hope you mean 105 followed by 205 otherwise that's your problem...

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Originally Posted by DaveT435

I hope you mean 105 followed by 205 otherwise that's your problem...

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Thanks for the catch. Edited the post. Thank you.

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What color pads are you using? Do you have any polish other than 205. Kind of strange because Corvette paint is known to usually be hard. The only thing I can think of is do another test spot, start with 105, make sure all that is left behind is a little haze. If that paint is extremely hard you may not have removed all the defects with the 105. Then when the paint looks good...or only haze try the 205 again.

Your saying gray scale. I'm seeing swirls in the paint, I'm assuming the gray your talking about is probably DA haze...does that sound right? Or is there something I'm missing in the picture?

The first part of your post didn't sink in when I read it the first time. I didn't realize you were that experienced. Have you done a few Corvettes?

What pads are you using? Perhaps try finishing out with a different DA instead of the flex.

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Originally Posted by DaveT435

What color pads are you using? Do you have any polish other than 205. Kind of strange because Corvette paint is known to usually be hard. The only thing I can think of is do another test spot, start with 105, make sure all that is left behind is a little haze. If that paint is extremely hard you may not have removed all the defects with the 105. Then when the paint looks good...or only haze try the 205 again.

Your saying gray scale. I'm seeing swirls in the paint, I'm assuming the gray your talking about is probably DA haze...does that sound right? Or is there something I'm missing in the picture?

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Lake County pads, orange and white followed with black. By Grey scale, yes I mean swirls. Looks nasty.

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I found the flex did well for initial polish, then change to rupes for finish polish.

Another thing I see is that you originally said you did 105 with a black lc pad.........

Does the paint seem hard? It really looks like the 105 didn't get all the defects. I had a black Infinity I ended up having to take a rotary with wool for the first cut to get the defects out. I still think I would try a test spot with 105 and see if there is any improvement in the swirls. Those swirls don't look like they were introduced by the DA to me.

Another thought is that maybe the paint is on the very hard side and you would need to go with a more aggressive approach

hydro tech tangerine worked well for initial polish

Have you considered making more that one pass with the M105/orange pad? Maybe the paint is so hard that it will take more than 1 pass of M105/orange pad to get the defects out.

I may be misunderstanding this, but could you be meaning that the M206 and white pad (or black pad from your initial post( is creating defects?

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Originally Posted by virus911s

Lake County pads, orange and white followed with black. By Grey scale, yes I mean swirls. Looks nasty.

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105 is hard to work with,you need micro pads for that car.Ive done 40 corvettes for a dealer in town.Here is what I had success with,fg 400 on a micro pad then HD speed with a orange or yellow foam pads topped with jescar.Or 205 only on a cutting micro pad then sp3800 on a yellow foam.If you're looking for newer products sonax will bang that out in one shot then top it.you could be dry buffing with 105.

I doubt its the Flex that is leaving a bad finish, have done numerous paints with a Flex and the finish while not as amazing as the long throws still always finishes darn well. I suspect the issue lies in one of two things. Either you didn't get the defects out from the initial compounding stage or the 205 is leaving behind marring which I have seen happen on some black paints and 205. I think its hilarious that people are thinking the Flex is the culprit.

I think the promblem lies with the 105.New sonax products make it easier for promblems like this.one product one step and void out all the confusion with different pads and such.

GSKR which Sonax product is it that you recomend for hard paint?

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Originally Posted by GSKR

I think the promblem lies with the 105.New sonax products make it easier for promblems like this.one product one step and void out all the confusion with different pads and such.

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Every time I think I'll do a test spot with 105, I say "what was I thinking!" Most of the posts on this forum that are related to poor results have to do with 105 and or (dare I say...) 205. Both are very good, don't get me wrong, and work wonderfully... under the right conditions and paint. I've had great success with 205.

But really the go to is BOSS Fast Correcting Cream, Pinnacle Advanced Compound. I also had great success with HD Adapt 501 & 502.
I also used the Sonax 04-06 and really liked that as well.

I recently did a 16 Corvette with Boss Correcting Cream, and Fast Correcting Cream in some spots for spot buffs...

You need something with a longer work time. Also, did you prime your pad? How many section passes did you do? Did you do a test spot, one with 105, then another with a different compound (with a different technology) to compare the diff? I perish the thought if you did the whole car w/out a test spot and realized after 5 to 8 hours you didn't like the results....

I did one step on a newer Camaro. The swirls looked very light but were fairly tough to remove. Microfiber pads gave me the best results.

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Originally Posted by Mantilgh

GSKR which Sonax product is it that you recomend for hard paint?

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Cutmax with the right pad for the paint your working on.

Thank you very much sir!!!

I wish their new ones were on the polishing chart, I have a hard time figuring out where they fit in.

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Originally Posted by paul_g

Every time I think I'll do a test spot with 105, I say "what was I thinking!" Most of the posts on this forum that are related to poor results have to do with 105 and or (dare I say...) 205. Both are very good, don't get me wrong, and work wonderfully... under the right conditions and paint. I've had great success with 205.

But really the go to is BOSS Fast Correcting Cream, Pinnacle Advanced Compound. I also had great success with HD Adapt 501 & 502.
I also used the Sonax 04-06 and really liked that as well.

I recently did a 16 Corvette with Boss Correcting Cream, and Fast Correcting Cream in some spots for spot buffs...

You need something with a longer work time. Also, did you prime your pad? How many section passes did you do? Did you do a test spot, one with 105, then another with a different compound (with a different technology) to compare the diff? I perish the thought if you did the whole car w/out a test spot and realized after 5 to 8 hours you didn't like the results....

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I LOL'D!

I no longer buy M105. I shudder at the though of using it just sitting here - unless it's on a rotary with wool. I like it in that situation.

M100, or UC on the random orbitals was a huge sanity saver for me.

Since reading Todd Helme's article on M205, it's been a dream to use, and the results better than I could have imagined.

I recently did a 07 blue corvette, started with menzerna hc400, then sf3500 lc orange then white pads with 3401. I was thinking what am I doing wrong too cause there were still allot of rids and swirls left, I learned that the clear was just much harder than what I was used to dealing with, a second go round with nice slow 6 section passes and it all came out nicely.

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Our 2004 Black finally got itself right with the world after Megs D300 w microfiber disc WG TSR on ORANGE LC flat foam and then a bit of WG FG on white LC flat foam. M101 & WG Uber on orange, then yellow LC flat foam were scoffed at by the GM paint. GG6.

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If you only have m105, mist the area with water and clean the pad very well with air after every pass

Here's the first picture of swirls you posted...

To me this DOES NOT look like micro-marring, it simply looks like you didn't remove all the deepest swirls and scratches during the first step, i.e. the correction or compounding step.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...3210166515.jpg


Here's the second picture of swirls you posted...


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...3211243776.jpg


So if you started with the swirls shown in the second picture and you've worked the finish to what you show in the first picture, it looks to me that you need to spend more time compounding or tweak your technique.


The FLEX 3401 is a a BEAST of a tool meaning it has all the power you need to tackle this car. Like others have said, M105 can be a tick on the difficult side to work with and M205 can be more finicky to finish out with on softer paints, it's usually really good on harder paints.


I have found free spinning orbital polishers (ANY of them), to require less technique and are less dependent on the pad and product to finish out perfect. I talk about this in a write-up I posted 4 years ago in 2012 with this old 2-door sports car...


http://www.autogeekonline.net/galler...illips_009.jpg


Christmas Detail - Ferrari P4 - Move over Rudolf



See post #32


This was something I said 4 years ago and I stick by what I said back then .



:)

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Originally Posted by GSKR

Cutmax with the right pad for the paint your working on.

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SONAX compounds, polishes and cleaner/waxes use great abrasive technology. Completely bubba-proof. Even someone brand new to machine polishing can't help but get professional results. Plus no dusting, easy wipe-off.

Use with any tool.


I have a class at Mobile Tech Expo with Rob McCrary that will go over the SONAX brand of products. More info here,



Mobile Tech Expo 2017 - Classes this year




:)

It's not the pads, I had a similar issue using M105 on black raven Cadillac
ATS. Switched over to Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover which solved the issue. Followed with Wolfgang Finishing Glaze and their sealant. All while using the Flex.

Also, Menzerna SF-3500 worked well, but for aggressive swirl remover the Total Swirl Remover is phenomenal.


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The same thing happened to me a few weeks back working on an Altima.
Problem solved just by switching from my Flex 3401 to my Rupes 15.
I have no answer as to why the Rupes did the trick except maybe the larger throw was better for the paint I was working on.
Products used was the 3M line. 2&3 and the orange and white LC pads.


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Agree with what Mike said.

Was the second pic before or after polishing?

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Originally Posted by HateSwirls

Problem solved just by switching from my Flex 3401 to my Rupes 15.
I have no answer as to why the Rupes did the trick except maybe the larger throw was better for the paint I was working on.


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What pad did you use with each tool?

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Originally Posted by Mike Phillips

Here's the first picture of swirls you posted...

To me this DOES NOT look like micro-marring, it simply looks like you didn't remove all the deepest swirls and scratches during the first step, i.e. the correction or compounding step.


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...3210166515.jpg


Here's the second picture of swirls you posted...


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...3211243776.jpg


So if you started with the swirls shown in the second picture and you've worked the finish to what you show in the first picture, it looks to me that you need to spend more time compounding or tweak your technique.


The FLEX 3401 is a a BEAST of a tool meaning it has all the power you need to tackle this car. Like others have said, M105 can be a tick on the difficult side to work with and M205 can be more finicky to finish out with on softer paints, it's usually really good on harder paints.


I have found free spinning orbital polishers (ANY of them), to require less technique and are less dependent on the pad and product to finish out perfect. I talk about this in a write-up I posted 4 years ago in 2012 with this old 2-door sports car...


http://www.autogeekonline.net/galler...illips_009.jpg


Christmas Detail - Ferrari P4 - Move over Rudolf



See post #32


This was something I said 4 years ago and I stick by what I said back then .



:)

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Thank you for the input! It's much appreciated!! I guess I should have written this post better. These pictures are what's left after removing swrils.

1. first cut with a rotary-paint was horrible. After this step paint was near flawless but had swrils.

2. Corrected the paint with my flex that caused this effect. No matter what I used, pad wise, it still created this spider Web appearance.







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Quote:

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Originally Posted by virus911s

Thank you for the input! It's much appreciated!! I guess I should have written this post better. These pictures are what's left after removing swrils.

1. first cut with a rotary-paint was horrible. After this step paint was near flawless but had swrils.

2. Corrected the paint with my flex that caused this effect. No matter what I used, pad wise, it still created this spider Web appearance.

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I think I read that you had ordered some Menzerna compounds and polishes?

If so, re-polish a section of an area you polished with the M201 using the FLEX 3401 and a fresh clean foam polishing or finishing pad and then inspect the results.

This should tell you if it's product related or pad or tool.

Menzerna and Meguiar's use very different abrasive technology.


:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Phillips

I think I read that you had ordered some Menzerna compounds and polishes?

If so, re-polish a section of an area you polished with the M201 using the FLEX 3401 and a fresh clean foam polishing or finishing pad and then inspect the results.

This should tell you if it's product related or pad or tool.

Menzerna and Meguiar's use very different abrasive technology.


:)

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Sounds like I'm headed to autogeek.com haha. I'm not familiar with the Menzerna line up. What do you recommend for a compound, Polish and finishing polish in their line up?

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400 and 3500 are a quality combo.

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Originally Posted by WRAPT C5Z06

What pad did you use with each tool?

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Ended up using the orange Lake Country pad
Tried the white first with both machines and the Rupes was the best choice for that particular job


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