Clear coat failure, is this how it starts?

The vehicle is my FJ Cruiser, which is nearly 13 years old, parked outside 24/7 mostly. I noticed this bubble on the hood yesterday morning, it had rained the night before, and it looked different amongst the water beads. I wiped the area down but it was still there. When I touched it, it was soft, like a bubble in a sticker, but softer, not what I expected. Today, after sitting in the sun, the bubble was gone, the paint feels smooth, but there is a mark.

To be expected I guess, a more than 10 year old Toyota sitting in the Australian sun.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...986e2d72d7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6fb9064105.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...21438b293c.jpg

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Touch up guy's should be the go for this, Sucks but like you said 10 year's out in the elements 24/7 does this.

Clear coat failure can manifest itself in many different ways, i.e., loss of gloss and clarity, micro cracks, blistering, peeling, etc.

I'm not sure from your pictures if this is a classic case of clear coat failure, it very well could be, but it's definitely some type of paint film failure.

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Originally Posted by 2black1s

Clear coat failure can manifest itself in many different ways, i.e., loss of gloss and clarity, micro cracks, blistering, peeling, etc.

I'm not sure from your pictures if this is a classic case of clear coat failure, it very well could be, but it's definitely some type of paint film failure.

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I agree.

Clear coat failure to me is when repair becomes faded beyond any amount of wetsanding and/or polishing.


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What you have going on I would call poor prepping of the panel or maybe just the cheap clear they've resorted to using to save a nickel per car for the shareholders that don't give a damn about your paint problems.

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Originally Posted by 2black1s

Clear coat failure can manifest itself in many different ways, i.e., loss of gloss and clarity, micro cracks, blistering, peeling, etc.

I'm not sure from your pictures if this is a classic case of clear coat failure, it very well could be, but it's definitely some type of paint film failure.

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There are some spots elsewhere on the hood that show some loss of gloss, I did have a matt vinyl wrap on the centre section for a few years, but it went bad so I removed it. The less glossy spots are in both areas, side and centre, so the vinyl has nothing to do with the degradation. It's almost impossible to get pics of the spots, I think I'm the only one who can see them.

Maybe I'll wrap the hood again.

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The water is getting under the surface some how and making it bubble and when the sun hits it and warms the panel up it evaporates and you are left with these spots?

Could also be rust coming up from underneath. Only way to tell is to break those bubbled pieces off and have a look.

Of course only when you're committed to a repair of the area.

i have a theory, we see all these fancy automotive paint lines, with robots and such, but i had a brother work on a paint line....these guys drink coffee, sneeze, sweat, etc....and every once in a while, a surface gets contaminated before it goes to the next step

If a paint job is failing in a uniform fashion, or where it's been overworked with abrasives or sanding that to me is a clear coat failure, whether it be a result of poor manufacturing, or too much 'correcting'....these spots look like defects in the manufacturing process or maybe chemical damage?

Definitely not rust, although that was my first thought when I saw it, it did look a lot like a rust bubble, but it was very soft, it moved around like a bubble in a sticker or under vinyl wrap, but even softer than that.

Possibly contamination when it was painted, I have no idea if it's had a respray, I haven't owned it since new. It's possible because there's one spot on the cowl, between the hood and the windscreen, where there is something like a bit of grit under the paint, unlikely to be from the factory, but possible.

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We've had 5 and a half inches of rain since midnight, and the bubble is bigger, so water is definitely getting in. I might get to practise a clear coat repair, now that it's only going to get worse. I bet it doesn't stop raining for weeks now.

Another option is to spray some matt black Plastidip in the same shape as the vinyl wrap I used to have. It will be cheaper, I can do it myself, and it will be easier to remove.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...994402e9a0.jpg

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That is what happened to my gf's old yellow GMC Canyon.

When we got together in 2012 the area between the door frame and the rubber gasket on the roof, the clear had peeled off.

Just before she got her new Jeep in Aug/Sept 2021 I noticed areas of the hood starting to bubble up.

Now it's peeled off in several sections of the hood, and drivers side fender flares.

It's an 04 that lived a large part of it's life outside in Orlando Florida, before coming back up to Detroit in 2012.

Around here, about two hours from Orlando, I often see CC failure on cars on the road. Makes me cringe and go home and add another layer of sealant.

And Boom goes the Dynamite!

More rain today, then bright sun. Lightly touched it to see how much water was under it, and it just seperated.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3c21b716cd.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bill D

Around here, about two hours from Orlando, I often see CC failure on cars on the road. Makes me cringe and go home and add another layer of sealant.

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I've been protecting this for almost 7 years, and it does have stone chips in other places on the hood, you'd think they'd be the obvious place for it to start, but no. I put a layer of Collinite 845 on it only a couple of weeks ago, no damage was obvious at that time. There have been stories about Toyota paint failure at around 10 - 12 years old in my news feed recently.

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That sucks Dave how much would it be to take the bonnet in and get a full re spray?

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Originally Posted by Tasmania

That sucks Dave how much would it be to take the bonnet in and get a full re spray?

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Not sure of the cost, but more than I want to pay at the moment. I bought some 1500 and 2000 grit today, I'll sand it smooth and spray some clear coat over it. Won't make too much difference if I'm eventually going to respray the whole thing. If it comes out smooth enough, I may just Plastidip in the pattern of the vinyl wrap I had previously.

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Originally Posted by Big Dave

Not sure of the cost, but more than I want to pay at the moment. I bought some 1500 and 2000 grit today, I'll sand it smooth and spray some clear coat over it. Won't make too much difference if I'm eventually going to respray the whole thing. If it comes out smooth enough, I may just Plastidip in the pattern of the vinyl wrap I had previously.

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My own Toyota daily driver Yaris went through the same thing. it starts small, and eventually spreads through some of the horizontal edges. The clear coat starts drying up, and flaking off, sometimes during a wash. I had to dedicate drying towels for this car only, because some of the flaked off clear pieces stay on the towels!

I also took the approach of sanding it with the intent of spraying clear myself. Did a test spot. Nope. Removing the old clear uniformly is a challenge, and I ended up going through the thin base color coat. Good luck to you if you end up trying it yourself.

If it ends up cracking and opening up a gash, a cheap hack option could be to use Plastidip to cover it. It may not look so great but it beats having it spread and becoming even bigger to the point where you might have to re paint the entire panel.

Tape off the small section off and Plastidip that sonbitch. That way it’s only a small square that you’ll be able to live with.[emoji4]

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Originally Posted by Big Dave

Not sure of the cost, but more than I want to pay at the moment. I bought some 1500 and 2000 grit today, I'll sand it smooth and spray some clear coat over it. Won't make too much difference if I'm eventually going to respray the whole thing. If it comes out smooth enough, I may just Plastidip in the pattern of the vinyl wrap I had previously.

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Before I sanded and sprayed the clear, I'd try a brush touch-up first.

If you sand and spray the clear coat you are going to end up with a repair and blend area that is at least six-inches in diameter and probably closer to a foot or more. That will look horrible.

If you try the brush touch-up (clear only) you can keep the repair area very small, no larger than the peeled area you are dealing with. In the end, the smaller repair will most likely be less noticeable than the larger "spray" repair.

If it were me, I'd take a single-edge razor blade and probe the edges of the offending clear coat, chipping away any clear that has lost, or has marginal, adhesion. Then lightly scour the exposed based coat with a scotchbrite pad. Do not sand and featheredge the clear coat, rather, use that edge to help contain the clear that you are going to apply. Then apply the clear with a brush staying within the confines of the chipped away clear coat.

At this point you can decide how much more work you want to do... You can stop right here as you have now protected the area from continuing to grow, or you can continue to apply additional clear, as required, sanding and polishing until you are satisfied with the appearance.

Whichever route you choose, be realistic with your expectations... It's never going to be perfect.

Take the bonnet off and black plastidip the whole thing, it will match the black on black wheels. :D

So I removed all the loose bits, cleaned it out, then brushed the clear coat into it. I did this over the last week till it was above the surrounding clear coat. Then wet sanded it back down till it felt and looked smooth. Then cut it back with Scholl S20 Black, then S30+. It's still very obvious up close, but when seen from a low angle it's not too bad. There's still some very fine sanding marks under optimal lighting, but they're going to be hidden under Plastidip or vinyl soon.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1e6e60206f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b29712162b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...679c092450.jpg

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Done a really nice job :buffing:

Dave -

If you go the vinyl route just make sure the area is well -blended-
Vinyl will amplify any defects and transfer it back

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Originally Posted by Big Dave

So I removed all the loose bits, cleaned it out, then brushed the clear coat into it. I did this over the last week till it was above the surrounding clear coat. Then wet sanded it back down till it felt and looked smooth. Then cut it back with Scholl S20 Black, then S30+. It's still very obvious up close, but when seen from a low angle it's not too bad. There's still some very fine sanding marks under optimal lighting, but they're going to be hidden under Plastidip or vinyl soon.

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Now that you are done, how do you feel about the brush repair vs. the spray repair you were initially considering?

I think you made the right choice. If you sprayed it, you'd still see the chipped area just the same, plus you'd see the much larger blend area surrounding the chip.

Short of repainting, it looks like you did as good as you could.

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Originally Posted by 2black1s

Now that you are done, how do you feel about the brush repair vs. the spray repair you were initially considering?

I think you made the right choice. If you sprayed it, you'd still see the chipped area just the same, plus you'd see the much larger blend area surrounding the chip.

Short of repainting, it looks like you did as good as you could.

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I'm pretty happy with it, it's not perfect, but neither would the spray repair have been. Like you said, it's a less noticeable end result.

I already have experience with wet sanding and buffing. On one of my previous cars there was about 30+ stone chips all over the front of the hood. I meticulously filled each one and wet sanded them smooth. Then buffed it till they were invisible. I didn't bother with clear coat on those, it was a darker metallic, almost gun metal, called Turbine Mica, a GM colour. I should see if I can find some pics I took at the time.

Thanks for the good advice.

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Rather than starting a new thread, I thought I'd just bump my old one. I've been noticing for a couple of years these two blemishes starting to appear on the rear drivers side of my hood. They've been very hard to capture pictures of, but finally the lighting conditions were right after the last wash. They don't respond to claying or polishing, leading me to think it may actually be under the clear coat.

I'm not too bothered as I've already had clear coat failure on another spot on the hood. I did a home repair on that, then covered it with matt black Plastidip. The FJ is 12 years old with 222,000km on it, so I'm really just curious if anyone has seen this before. The pics have been enhanced to show up the blemishes, nobody else has ever noticed or said anything, but to me they're really obvious.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b06700075a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...eeac831af3.jpg

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I'd say that the majority of cars that sit outside will have some clearcoat failure by 15 years.