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  1. #11
    Super Member custmsprty's Avatar
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    Re: Help!!! Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish not removing, clumping

    I'm not a fan of coatings because I do enjoy the detailing process, that being said, if I were to use one I'd be sure to go through the correction process first. I've had great one step results with Menzerna FG400 with an orange pad. Zero marring as you can see below. This truck was in bad shape and a one step with FG400 was amazing. I did this beast in just a little over 7 hours.





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  2. #12
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    Re: Help!!! Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish not removing, clumping

    Yep, sounds like a tad too much product. I'd also say not to use a long nap/deep pile towel to remove it.

    That aside, we literally HATE using PBL surface cleanser!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Your results are not some sort of anomaly, far from it. We end up (when we actually use it) having one person applying it (by hand) and another RIGHT BEHIND removing it. Let it sit for more than a few seconds (especially if it's more than the mid 70's) and it's a friggin' bear to remove. If it doesn't remove easily, put more on, wipe off immediately!

    Duragloss Squeaky Clean is lots, LOTS LOTS easier!

    You would also be well served to either get a bottle of Eraser, or do a mix of Meguiar's D114 and 20%~25% alcohol solution and make your own "panel wipe". Sure, you can also do your own <20% alcohol solution but BE AWARE that it'll not have ANY lubricity! Which means you need NEW NICE microfiber towels to do your panel wipes with.

    Mostly though, the problem you're having is a combination of too much product and too long being left on the surface. If you put it on with one hand and take if off with the other, literally wax on wax off you'll be much happier.

  3. #13
    Super Member dad07's Avatar
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    Re: Help!!! Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish not removing, clumping

    alltho I haven't used the PBL surface cleaner......it's not rocket science.......I agree with the majority of the guys here with using to much product.......BUT I will add that, while reading thru your description that you are using a cheap da....then you said you do not have a variable speed da.......then read something about microfiber bonnets.

    What kind of machine are using?

    What kind of pads are you using?

    What size pads are you using?

    Why do you not want to do the correction steps ( proper prep) before using the coating?

    I don't live that far from you.....I'm in Monroe.......with a ton of products and machines that if you need can use here at my shop.
    Tim
    "I have done so much with so little for so long.
    Now I can do anything with nothing"

  4. #14
    Super Member Rsurfer's Avatar
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    Re: Help!!! Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish not removing, clumping

    [QUOTE=cardaddy;1168752]Yep, sounds like a tad too much product. I'd also say not to use a long nap/deep pile towel to remove it.



    Get a edgeless short nap towel to remove. You can use a longer nap towel for a final buff. Change towels frequently.

  5. #15
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    Re: Help!!! Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish not removing, clumping

    Quote Originally Posted by dad07 View Post
    alltho I haven't used the PBL surface cleaner......it's not rocket science.......I agree with the majority of the guys here with using to much product.......BUT I will add that, while reading thru your description that you are using a cheap da....then you said you do not have a variable speed da.......then read something about microfiber bonnets.

    What kind of machine are using?

    What kind of pads are you using?

    What size pads are you using?

    Why do you not want to do the correction steps ( proper prep) before using the coating?

    I don't live that far from you.....I'm in Monroe.......with a ton of products and machines that if you need can use here at my shop.
    Thanks for the offer Tim! And sorry about the confusing posts... I was pretty tired and frustrated when I wrote these.

    To answer some of your questions:
    I ended up using Meg's UP all around, and got perfectly acceptable results. I'm happy with it.
    The main problem I was facing in correction were loads of ultra fine deep scratches (from a long and sad series of events that were out of my control). I didn't want to compound them out, as they were at least 50&#37; if not 75% through the clear coat layer. Even though I'm applying a coating, I'd rather keep the clear thicker, as the car is virtually new. Plus, I could always go back and compound everything if the scratches were offensive.
    Through polishing, the scratch edges seemed to feather, and visibility was dramatically reduced. Now, you wouldn't even know they were there unless you used an intense light source to view the panel.

    I experimented with suggestions here, and found that the best hand-applied method was to use an extra large foam (brick) applicator, primed with a spray of dist. water, and with about 9 1/8" flattened "dots" of product, distributed onto the pad then rubbed in with a gloved finger. After the first 2 sq. ft. section, a very light spray of dist. water and 3 additional dots seemed to do the trick.
    I invested in 4 short/med nap "wax removal" micros on BOGO, which worked wonders. Had two towels ready: one folded on short nap side for removal, and the other on medium nap for a buff. That, with 2 extra cobra 530's took care of things

    Procedure was:
    -prime pad per above
    -quickly spread excess product down center of panel with one wipe
    -do a quick crosshatch of swirls (2 total section passes)
    -lightly spray panel with dist. water (just misting even the center of the work area from 24" or more was enough)
    -immediately remove with short nap using one (2 if over applied) section wipe passes
    -buff with medium nap for 1 section pass
    -use clean portion of towel for next section
    -alternate/flip towel naps after all 4 folds are used

    Had no noticeable residue remaining after inspection... and this was confirmed with using the procedure on head/tail lamps as well.

    Now, this may not have been the wisest move... but I was still concerned with residual product remaining on the surface. Plus, a few stray fingerprints made it onto the paint in removal, as I was working bare handed (I've since found a great way to wear nitrile gloves without dripping sweat onto the paint). I ended up doing a light 10% IPA wipedown with clean 530's before coating. Perhaps it caused some micro-marring, or worst case, introduced some of the residual chemical left behind in the microfiber even with thorough washing... but I haven't noticed anything negative at all. I guess only time will tell on the coating's durability.
    Last edited by Ike21; 10-23-2014 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Removed questions for separate post

  6. #16
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    Re: Help!!! Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish not removing, clumping

    Quote Originally Posted by Ike21 View Post
    Wow! Gorgeous results! I hope I can eventually get to something similar, but it won't be nearly as awesome as with that nice black color.

    As far as the bottle design... The flip top would be nice! There simply isn't a way around wasting product and mixing well with a polish of this thickness.



    I believe so, but can't remember the results... which means they were likely negative. I'll try this with my next round of detailing today just to see the results. Still, the holy grail here is a minimal pass WOWO procedure, and rewetting will take time.



    I agree, it does sound that way, and that was my initial guess as well!

    I literally used a drop about 3 to 5 mm in diameter to prime the pad and for the initial passes, and still got the same results. Generally a PITA to remove.



    Good call! I'd love some help. I'm in Gastonia, NC, which is just outside of Charlotte, NC. Not exactly the detailing mecca of the world... but with the rich racing heritage in the area, I'd say there is an above average love for all things automotive.



    I'll try priming the pad with the DI water spray first and see what happens!

    Also, how much product do you recommend reapplying between sections?

    I did try spraying DI water directly on the panel after application to aid in the removal (all of the panel, not just the clumped spots), which helped, but then of course, you're working wet... which uses-up more decent towels than I have available =(.



    Yes, it definitely got worse when using the cheap DA (with a micro bonnet). I noticed it overheated after only 4 passes as well... so I toned it down to two, but still got some overheating... so I went to hand application after those first two tries.

    As far as my general method that did produce the best results (with some stubborn product left).
    I used a 3mm to 5mm drop (imagine a sphere here) on a microfiber pad (not the best quality micro, maybe not even split fiber), then rubbed the product into an approximately 1 to 1.5 sq. ft. area with two total passes. Then, I immediately removed with a supreme shine MF, which left some residue behind... then followed this with the Wolfgang Concours MF, Wolfgang Concours-Series Microfiber Towel, german towel. Still took some elbow grease with the wolfgang.

    So things I think I'll try today:
    -Priming the applicator pad with Dist. water
    -Using as little product as possible
    -Using just the wolfgang MF alone in removal

    Also, I just washed and dried the wolfgangs alone, with wolfgang MF detergent, which will hopefully minimize the stray microfiber lint.

    I'll try to get some additional details on everything that I do this time around and get back on the forums late tonight. Thanks for the feedback everyone!


    Also, as a side note, how well does the BL surface coating hide scratches, if at all? I'm trying to minimize the time spent on correction... and the depth removed from my new car's clear coat... as I unfortunately picked up a few RIDS somewhere over the last 3 months or in detailing this week. =(

    Why is it that everything seems to go so much smoother on paper? Lol.
    You could of just gotten a bad batch or a bottle that wasn't stored properly. I don't like how every just assumes 100% that you're doing something wrong. Ridiculous, you shouldn't need to be Mike Phillips to figure out how to use the polish. With all the different ways you tried I would bet there has to be something wrong with your bottle of the polish.

    Anyway, I'm using this product today for the first time. How big of an area should you do at once? A door? Half a door? 2x2 section? Is it supposed to be wipe on wipe off with no hazing time? The directions aren't that clear.

  7. #17
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    Re: Help!!! Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish not removing, clumping

    Quote Originally Posted by custmsprty View Post
    I'm not a fan of coatings because I do enjoy the detailing process, that being said, if I were to use one I'd be sure to go through the correction process first. I've had great one step results with Menzerna FG400 with an orange pad. Zero marring as you can see below. This truck was in bad shape and a one step with FG400 was amazing. I did this beast in just a little over 7 hours.





    wow, that really brought the color back.

  8. #18
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    Re: Help!!! Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish not removing, clumping

    Quote Originally Posted by fightnews View Post
    You could of just gotten a bad batch or a bottle that wasn't stored properly. I don't like how every just assumes 100% that you're doing something wrong. Ridiculous, you shouldn't need to be Mike Phillips to figure out how to use the polish. With all the different ways you tried I would bet there has to be something wrong with your bottle of the polish.

    Anyway, I'm using this product today for the first time. How big of an area should you do at once? A door? Half a door? 2x2 section? Is it supposed to be wipe on wipe off with no hazing time? The directions aren't that clear.
    Wow how funny and ironic I found this post, I used this stuff back in june with no problems. Polish sat in garage all summer. Went to use yesterday, major problems.

    Best I could tell the polish separated. it was turning into this white powder even applying by hand. I have a high powered light and the powder was causing major swirls wiping it off. I did 4 panels before realizing it was the polish.

    Re polished then used n914 as a panel wipe problem solved but wow. I think maybe because its a water based polish maybe the emulsification broke? Just a theory IDK if its even emulsified nut it goes to show you can not always assume people are doing something wrong with a given problem.

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