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  1. #11
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Final step before wax.

    My turn....




    Quote Originally Posted by nicks75 View Post

    I'm going to be picking up a bottle of advanced swirl remover along with advanced finishing polish, I will be finishing with souveran wax,

    Im curious as to if it would benefit to use paintwork cleansing lotion after the advanced finishing polish before waxing?
    No.

    A paint cleaner is for LIGHT surface or topical cleaning of paint already in great or like-new condition before applying a wax or synthetic sealant.

    IF - IF you have already used a polish, especially a fine cut polish, then not only is there no reason to use a paint cleaner in some cases you will be working backwards. That is the paint cleaner will not perfect the paint as well as the fine cut polish and may even diminish the perfection created by the polish.

    This all assumes you're using product that use great abrasive technology and the Pinnacle compounds and polishes fall into this category.




    Quote Originally Posted by Shoemaker23 View Post

    After you compund and polish, you want to use an IPA to get all the polish oils and resusude off the paint. I recomment using CarPro Eraser

    Well a person can do this, that is chemically strip the paint before applying a wax or synthetic sealant if they want to but I never do. This practice has caused so much confusion that back in 2005 I addressed this topic on MOL by asking the head chemist at Meguiar's what the skinny is on this practice and then wrote an article on the topic. Here's the updated article writtin in 2010 and it's just as accurate today as when I wrote it.


    Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding


    Sheldon explaining Quantum Physics to Penny on the Big Bang Theory



    Besides not being necessary.... you risk MICRO-MARRING the paint anytime you chemically strip paint. This includes anytime you chemically strip the paint to apply a ceramic paint coating.


    I show and share this in detail in the below thread for 2011


    Hologram Free with a Rotary Buffer


    Wiped very thoroughly with Mineral Spirits




    Any marring you see now is not "holograms" but marring from wiping. Keep in mind, clear coats are "Scratch-Sensitive" and when working on BLACK paint even the lightest defects show up, that's why I always test on black paint.




    I think it's pretty obvious that there are zero holograms or rotary buffer swirls in the paint...





    Next I wiped the panel down with IPA at 12.5%. Note when I wiped the panel down both with MS and IPA I dragged the panel into the shade first.





    Now you can see some light marring, but that's because IPA isn't a very good lubricant, in fact it's a horrible lubricant. I think of all the people that have been told by others to wipe their car down with IPA before going to the next step and it's pretty easy to understand that when they did this they likely marred their car's paint and this is called working backwards. It's also likely that if the people taking this advice were working on light to medium colored cars they never saw the marring.










    Quote Originally Posted by Eldorado2k View Post

    Yes it will benefit from using it exactly how you have in mind. If you already have it on hand and feel like going all out then by all means go for it.

    Have to respectfully disagree. See all the info I posted above.



    Quote Originally Posted by Eldorado2k View Post

    That’s exactly what the Pinnacle Paint Cleansing Lotion does... Its made to work in conjunction with the other products he mentioned and serve as the final step to prep the paint for wax application.
    Umm.... no. The Pinnacle Paint Cleansing Lotion is a product that falls into the category of products called,

    Paint Cleaner


    Paint cleaners are supposed to be non-abrasive. They get their cleaning ability from a chemical cleaning action. If a paint cleaner has abrasives, it's not longer a paint cleaner but a polish.


    A paint cleaner is what I call an either/or product.

    You either use a paint cleaner to prep the paint for wax or sealant OR you use a polish... but you don't use both. Using both would be redundant and in the case of high qualtity polishes, the use of a paint cleaner could actually be working backwards and a polish will do more to improve the paint than a paint cleaner.

    Paint cleaner = Removes light surface contamination, oxidation, staining and impurities.

    Fine cut polish = Removes light surface contamination, oxidation, staining and impurities AND removes minor or shallow below surface defects.


    So a quality fine cut polish will do EVERYTHING a paint cleaner will do and MORE and do it better.

    So for all the time, energy and risk it takes to apply anything to scratch-sensitive clearcoat paint you will get better results more consistently to use a fine cut polish than a paint cleaner. Considering it takes just as long to apply a fine cut polish as it does to apply and remove a paint cleaner, in my opinion and experience, you're better off to apply a fine cut paint cleaner anytime you want to prep paint than a paint cleaner. I can go deeper on this topic but not now, not today.




    Quote Originally Posted by nicks75 View Post

    Thank you, yes I do have a bottle, I've always used it before waxing, but now my paint needs some correcting, I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't be wasting time and product.
    Skip the paint cleaner step after polishing and simply go straight to the wax. In fact, when I'm doing this I don't even try to remove 100% of the residual polishing oils left by the polishing step, sure wipe off most but don't sweat the small stuff. Apply the wax, do a GREAT job of covering every square millimeter of paint and then follow the direction and wipe the entire mess off at once. I also like to let Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax dry before wiping it off. It will actually wipe-off cleaner than if you wipe it off wet. The KEY is to apply a thin coat. This is actually true for any WOWO paste wax.



    Quote Originally Posted by fightnews View Post
    If you are going to polish then you don't need to use eraser or Pinnacle paintwork cleansing lotion before using Sovereign paste wax

    Waste of time
    Correct.



    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerRivFan View Post

    I have to agree with fightnews on this, but I will explain ... it would be unnecessary to use the cleansing lotion after finish polishing, as polishing will accomplish the same thing.
    Correct.


    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerRivFan View Post

    You do not need any IPA or Eraser wipe down either after polishing (that’s only necessary if you are then going to use a ceramic coating). You can go directly from polishing to applying Souveran. It will look great.
    Correct and accurate.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin47 View Post

    An abrasive polish will do a better job then a paint cleanser (chemical cleaner).
    And also correct.



    And this is how I start my day....



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  3. #12
    Super Member acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Final step before wax.

    I use to wonder about this topic, but after enough reading, I’m convinced that the cleansing polish is not needed after a good finishing polish if applying a wax or most sealants. IPA wipe down (or paint prep spray of choice) seems to be a preference. It may slightly improve longevity if panel wipe is performed, but I don’t think that’s a fact, and some may like the polishing oils left behind for the overall look of the paint, so keeping it without panel wipe serves a potential benefit.
    Using the cleansing polish is not needed but won’t hurt anything if you were to go that route. Same philosophy regarding panel wipe would then apply as well.

  4. #13
    Super Member acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Final step before wax.

    Ignore my statement in the last paragraph above. Based on Mike’s response, using the cleansing polish could hurt (cause marring).

  5. #14
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    Re: Final step before wax.

    Wow guys, thanks for all the replys. I'll listen to everyones advice and skip the cleaning lotion. I've used the cleansing lotion in the past with great results but it was when my car was new. Now I just need a nice solid weekend without rain to get started.

  6. #15
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    Re: Final step before wax.

    I'm going to add 1 point that may or may not be true but I have a hunch that it is true.

    Leaving the polishing oils on then waxing will improve the look of the finial job. Glazes like the legendary number 7 show car glaze are basically polishing oils. If you were to use M205 or ultimate polish you would be applying number 7 since they use the same oils. Leaving them is going to make the finial job look better. The oils give it the wet look

  7. #16
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    Re: Final step before wax.

    Quote Originally Posted by fightnews View Post
    I'm going to add 1 point that may or may not be true but I have a hunch that it is true.

    Leaving the polishing oils on then waxing will improve the look of the finial job. Glazes like the legendary number 7 show car glaze are basically polishing oils. If you were to use M205 or ultimate polish you would be applying number 7 since they use the same oils. Leaving them is going to make the finial job look better. The oils give it the wet look
    It’s because the oils create a flatter surface which will enhance the look. I too never use eraser or ipa because of this and also why I use Essence prior to coatings as it levels the surface which aids in gloss.

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