Something increadible happened on Autopia.org

[Calendyr]

What a strange, strange circle this is. This carrot-and-stick trick has been around for a long time, and I guess it depends on your perspective as to whether it's proper or not. I will say that sending your CC info by non-secure means where it will be held hostage until you post 4 satisfactory (I mean UNBIASED) reviews is a new twist.

Yes, it does. It's about human nature, especially when completing the task entitles you to another "free" product.

I don't know how that free product deal works. If what you are saying is true (sounds bizzare to me to say the least) then I can understand a little bit more why it should be frowned upon. On the other hand, freedom of expression is something I believe is a right that should not be removed for any reason in a free society. So if they have an issue with his post, why not simply make a follow up post saying that this review is very likelly biased for x and y reasons?

The only time I consider post deletion acceptable on a forum is when someone is trying to promote a competing service/product to the one the forum owner is offering. And if someone is being very offensive to someone else on the forum. But deleting posts because the information may not be correct or may be biased sets a very bad precedent.

[Calendyr]

So instead of letting this die there where you saw it you brought it here to make it even bigger?!?!?!?!

I really think people should learn to find out all the facts before they start posting and creating drama... Keep Calm, Push away from the keyboard, and Detail on...

Well this is something Worth discussing. No such thing of too much information in my mind. Someone here brought a good point, it still doesn't excuse the deletion but at least I can see a valid concern now.

Since I don't know anyone on that other forum I don't have much interest talking with them about it. I value the opinions of people here so that is why I brought it up here.

[JSFM35x]

Nothing incredible at all but it did get me to open your thread.

Well if you spent any time over there on autopia care care forums you'd know that this has been requested many times by Todd. If you just showed up to dump a review to get your free stuff they don't want that with out full disclosure. Really a small, fair request to make. In fact i am surprised they allow them at all.

If it were me moderating. I'd do the same thing at the least. These forums cost money to run. They are about sales and education. Make no mistake, this is a business. I wonder how you would feel if input an ad for my detailing business on your front lawn so you customers could see it while you were trying to sell them? All they ask is for you to be upfront. Not too much to ask. I learn a lot on them and have grown to appreciate the honest community. These reviews for free product are a great marketing idea and litter all the boards 3d reviews that I never know if they are legit or forced becasue of free product so they are ineffective to me.

I much prefer the review of someone who plunked down hard earned money on an item. My 2 cents.

[tuscarora dave]

Nothing incredible at all but it did get me to open your thread.

Well if you spent any time over there on autopia care care forums you'd know that this has been requested many times by Todd. If you just showed up to dump a review to get your free stuff they don't want that with out full disclosure. Really a small, fair request to make. In fact i am surprised they allow them at all.

If it were me moderating. I'd do the same thing at the least. These forums cost money to run. They are about sales and education. Make no mistake, this is a business. I wonder how you would feel if input an ad for my detailing business on your front lawn so you customers could see it while you were trying to sell them? All they ask is for you to be upfront. Not too much to ask. I learn a lot on them and have grown to appreciate the honest community. These reviews for free product are a great marketing idea and litter all the boards 3d reviews that I never know if they are legit or forced becasue of free product so they are ineffective to me.

I much prefer the review of someone who plunked down hard earned money on an item. My 2 cents.

Very well said Jeff!! This stuff is "old hat" nothing incredible at all. Just another person not thinking things through before taking action on something. The world is full of this.

[golliger]

... On the other hand, freedom of expression is something I believe is a right that should not be removed for any reason in a free society....

Freedom of expression has nothing to do with a private forum.

[RTexasF]

It's as simple as this:

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.
"Shill" typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that they are an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller (or marketer of ideas) for whom they are secretly working.

I helped pinpoint these twits on other forums I participate in and did so proudly. Had he come on a forum that I moderate he would have been banned in addition to deletion of the garbage he posted.

[RTexasF]

I don't know how that free product deal works. If what you are saying is true (sounds bizzare to me to say the least) then I can understand a little bit more why it should be frowned upon. On the other hand, freedom of expression is something I believe is a right that should not be removed for any reason in a free society. So if they have an issue with his post, why not simply make a follow up post saying that this review is very likelly biased for x and y reasons?

EXACTLY! You don't know how it works so who are you to get up on your hind legs for something you don't even comprehend? The persons (there were two) that made the posts admitted they were given free product to provide a review after they were cornered and also admitted they were wrong in doing so. Would these circumstances offer an honest review? That is highly questionable is it not? Autopia is one of the very few detailing forums that even allows talking about a product that they don't carry which is extremely gracious. They abused this privilege by not saying they were supplied the product upfront. It was dishonest and that deserves swift retribution which was administered.

The entire incident also speaks to the lowly ways of the company that came up with this scheme. I, for one, would never buy a product they made after witnessing this. Many others feel the same way. They shot themselves in the foot.

[Dr_Pain]

Holy Moly!!!!

There is a LOT to consider in reading this thread....

1) Was the "positive" review biased by the lure of the free product (or refund of their purchase), or ......

- On AGO we have promotions where we "agree to review" a product (honor code), BUT the offer of the free product is not contingent on a positive review, neither is it one where we purchase the product and then get a refund upon linking the review. From what I have read in previews posts looks like a pure and simple marketing scheme, so the review serves the company, not the intended audience. Don't get me wrong, it may be a good product and may deserve the positive review but the stench of "possible deception" is too strong for me. Having said that, this leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the forum participants and is not good practice for any forums. Just imagine if AGO was FLOODED with these kinds of "questionable reviews"!?!?!

2) Todd Helme following the guy on other sites to make trouble for him!?

- I SERIOUSLY doubt that he would have the time or the desire to cyber-stalk this reviewer or anyone else, especially considering that the forum community would be more than happy to expose the shady practice of "paid reviews". He did do his job in maintaining the quality and integrity of his forum. As a moderator, it is his duty, and so far he has done a very good job. Granted I spend a LOT more time on this forum (compared to his) but that does not change the fact that the work I have seen him do is top notch. Conversely, I have seen quite a few threads disappear on AGO and agree 100% with the process, when done to maintain the quality and integrity of the environment we share. How would you feel if you were to peruse the forum and 90% of the threads were just a bunch of confrontational BS?

3) Freedom of expression. Lord knows we could dive into some major depths with this one! As it was expressed before, it is a private forum and the only "rights" you have is the "rights" they offer. You are not protected by the constitution in your ability to destroy the serene environment they provide for us (paid for and managed by). But don't see this as an infringement of ones rights, since they do not prevent anyone from exercising their right to leave the forum. By the way, on a private forum, majority rules.... one may have the right to post a propaganda thread, but we have the right to be protected against such inflammatory BS, and I believe that the majority is better served by a quality, serene, bias free forum rather then by a questionable, controversially filled, and confrontational environment. This would make me leave!!

As it was described prior, this forum is one of the many tools AG and PBMG has to promote and market their products (hence the reason they frown upon linking other commercial businesses), but they are extremely fair in allowing us to express our UNBIASED opinions and experiences on other products. AND they have done a very nice job (on this site and the sister one) in weaning out the "questionable" compensated reviews. We can all smell them a mile away, and this sours our experience (as members). Again, the reviewer may have had a genuine experience with the product but the fact that it was a compensated review stinks enough that I personally don't want it to litter the board I come to read daily.

[Nick McKees37]

Palm Beach Motoring Group and its subsidiaries do not condone putting up reviews when they are written just for the sake of obtaining FREE products.

This thread is being closed.