Serious question, not sure if dumb or not...

**ArkayoDeetayo** · 07-22-2012, 01:17 PM

I was reading how coatings such as CQuartz adds a layer of protection and are resistant or less likely to scratch/mar. That means the "layer of protection" it leaves behind can be marred/scratched.

I always thought I had "soft paint" since it was so easy to remove swirls/marring with polishes that are rated 1-2 in the 10 scale range.

However, thinking about how coating has resistant mar/scratching layers, is it possible when I apply my waxes/sealants, that the marring/swirling I am seeing is just on the wax/sealant itself rather than my paint? Beause I get a lot of swirls or mar from just using the wrong wash media(CG synthetic washpad) to using the wrong microfiber.

So is there such thing as waxes/sealants leaving behind a layer that can be marred/swirled the same way as coating? Or is the mar/swirl directly on my paint?

P.S, when I use quality MF and wash media (I only used that before I knew better), now that I use higher quality, I notice the swirl/marring has gone down but still doesn't answer my question as to whether the swirl/mar is on my paint or on the waxes/sealant if that is even possible?

**chris.ganucheau** · 07-22-2012, 01:59 PM

Its on the paint, the coating are sorta like an extra clear coat. they are alot tougher then selants an waxes but can still be swirled/marred.

**rider9195** · 07-22-2012, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by chris.ganucheau

Its on the paint, the coating are sorta like an extra clear coat. they are alot tougher then selants an waxes but can still be swirled/marred.

That's what I think.

**ss 07C70** · 07-22-2012, 05:21 PM

I think what rock012345 was really asking (and if not, then what I would like to ask). If the "Coatings" are like a "sacrificial" layer of clear, that is harder than MOST clear, but can still be scratched / marred, would the same be true for waxes and sealants. To state in another way - is the wax and / or sealant that is put on as a LSP "Scratch-able" to the point where, if scratches/marring is seen, is it in the clear or could it be in the LSP.

**DaveT435** · 07-22-2012, 05:43 PM

IMO it has to be the clear. Unless your talking about a product like opti-coat in which case you may be able to get a visable scratch in that without hitting the clear...that's all IMVHO...

**RMM** · 07-22-2012, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by rock012345

...
So is there such thing as waxes/sealants leaving behind a layer that can be marred/swirled the same way as coating? Or is the mar/swirl directly on my paint?
...

The marring/swirling is on the OEM clear coat or on the applied coating. The LSP is too thin to be the only one affected.

**ArkayoDeetayo** · 07-22-2012, 11:15 PM

so if I apply a coating (Cquartz) and happen to mar it with a cheap microfiber towel, the marring will be on the coating.

if I apply a coat of wax (Fuzion) and happen to mar it with a cheap microfiber towel, the marring will be on the paint.

Is that correct?

The "reason" is because the coating is a lot thicker than the fuzion wax?

**umi000** · 07-23-2012, 02:17 AM

In a test on UK detailing forum Detailing World, waxes and sealants were found to have a thickness of around 20 nanometers - 1/5000th of a (100 micrometer-thick) human hair. Cquartz, on the other hand, claims a film thickness of around 1 micrometer - 50 times thicker than that of your typical wax or sealant. It'll also be a harder film than your wax/sealant. These factors means that it would be possible for marring to be contained within the film layer of a coating, but very, very unlikely in the case of a wax or sealant (any "marring" that only impacts the wax or sealant layer would probably not be visible, though this is all conjecture on my part).

**FUNX650** · 07-23-2012, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by rock012345

so if I apply a coating (Cquartz) and happen to mar it with a cheap microfiber towel, the marring will be on the coating.

if I apply a coat of wax (Fuzion) and happen to mar it with a cheap microfiber towel, the marring will be on the paint.

Is that correct?

The "reason" is because the coating is a lot thicker than the fuzion wax?

Originally Posted by umi000

In a test on UK detailing forum Detailing World, waxes and sealants were found to have a thickness of around 20 nanometers - 1/5000th of a (100 micrometer-thick) human hair. Cquartz, on the other hand, claims a film thickness of around 1 micrometer - 50 times thicker than that of your typical wax or sealant. It'll also be a harder film than your wax/sealant. These factors means that it would be possible for marring to be contained within the film layer of a coating, but very, very unlikely in the case of a wax or sealant (any "marring" that only impacts the wax or sealant layer would probably not be visible, though this is all conjecture on my part).

First off...

@rock012345...not a dumb question/thread subject, IMHO!

Next...

In calculating cold, clinical mathematical 'numbers' for thicknesses (layers, if you will)
of CC paint-films, waxes/sealants/Coatings you''ll have to be able
to measure (for USA conversion-factoring) in:
Millionths, hundred thousandths, ten thousandths...of an inch...

[And, thusly, can be quite difficult to visualize/put your hands around (at least I think so).]

-Modern CC sprayed in the OEMs' factory paint-kitchens are 'thin' (and OEMs want it even 'thinner'):~ 25-40 microns
25-40 microns: ~ 1-1.75 mils
1-1.75 mils: ~ .001-.002 inches...1/1000th-2/1000ths of an inch...
and depending on the OEM, and their particular paint-engineering-specs:
"softer>harder", in 'CC-speak'. that is.

-Assumption/Going by umi000's waxes'/sealants'-layer-thickness number of: 20nm...is true, then:

20 nm: ~ .02 microns
.02 microns: ~ .00078 mils
.00078 mils: ~ .000007-8 inches...7-8 millionths of an inch...very 'thin'...

(And it's been said/accepted that waxes are usually 'softer' than sealants...
and have differing temperature-fracture-points/"types of bonding"/'scratch-resistance'.)

-CQuartz claims a SiO2 Coating-film thickness of: .7-1.5 microns.
.7-1.5 microns: ~ .00003-.000006 inches (3/1000,000-6/1000,000 in)...
Still quite thin---but probably due to its "ingredients/type-of-bonding"...is considered:
"thicker(~x50)/harder/more scratch-resistant"...than waxes/sealants.

-Opti-Gard/Coat 2.0 claims a SiC Coating film-thickness of: 1-2 microns
1-2 microns: ~ .00004-.00008 inches (4/1000,000-8/1000,000 in)...
Still, also, quite thin---but, again, probably due to its "ingredients/type-of-bonding":
"thicker(~x100)/harder/more scratch-resistant"...than waxes/sealants.

-There are certain ASTM testing methods for all of these different:
"Layers that are intended to protect the BC's colors" characteristics...

(Among many): for thickness, hardness, scratch/abrasive-resistance.

(If you go here: ASTM International - Standards Search
you'll be able to type-in this information, whenever you so desire)

My conclusion would be that Coatings would be more prone to have
"induced-marring" atop/within said Coating---Not atop/into the CC paint-film layer...

(With the Depth of "induced-marring" into/through this:
'harder than (waxes/sealants) Coating-layer' taken into account, of course!)

And...More than likely, IMHO...
Nigh onto impossible not to breach waxes'/sealants': 'Softer, thinner than a Coating's film-layer'...
Seemingly, then, without much effort (whatever touches (A: M.P. analogy, perhaps?) waxes/sealants) would have the
tendancy to introduce this "induced-marring" to the CC paint-film.

Also... Scratch-resistant doesn't mean scratch-proof!!

Keep in mind: My figures/way-of-figuring...may be way off-base, though.

Bob

**ArkayoDeetayo** · 07-23-2012, 11:20 AM

Thanks Umi and Bob, that clears things up.

Didn't know waxes were so much thinner than coatings.

I want to buy a coating, but then all my waxes I already bought would be wasted, and I also enjoy putting a coat of wax...would be kind of useless to put wax on the coating as part of the benefit of the coating is the coating's property to keep cleaner