oem paint thickness...!

[Chramiji]

So, ive recently acquired a defelsko dft combo on the second hand market.. and went about measuring paint on 2 cars... (fairly new... cars...)

would anyone happen to know where i can fine oem paint thickness specs?

my 16 fiesta shows the following...

jams ~55-60 micron
hood,roof,hatch ~80-88 microns
fenders, quarter panels, doors ~100-115 microns

12 civic
roof, trunk ~82-90 microns
rear quarter ~94-108 microns...

scary thin? my gauge zeros out on reset on my thin chinese veggie cleaver....

[zmcgovern45]

Those readings seem very normal based on the readings I have been taking on cars for years.

I've found the majority of newer OEM paints will be in the 90-120 range on average. Sometimes cars are consistently lower than that on all panels (<90 microns) and sometimes they are consistently higher than that (>150 microns). It really just depends. My wife's 2010 Mazda reads in the 70-80 micron range throughout the entire car, yet it has gone through a 2 step correction when we initially purchased it, and several other maintenance polishing details without issue. Polishing is a relatively non invasive process.

I am not sure about the automotive world, but the large construction and mining machines we assemble at my work are transitioning to "paint before assembly" process where the actual supplier of a part (say a hood, fender, door, etc) will paint the piece and then send it to us for final assembly, therefore having 2 panels from different sources being every so slightly different is normal. This is all done for cost reduction, which is why I would not be too surprised if some automotive manufacturers use this process. Perhaps someone could weigh in on that if they have any info.

[Chramiji]

interesting to know! i was very surprised and thought maybe my new to me positest was due for calibration....

i do notice i cant get a 0 reading on a flat piece of anodized aluminum Non ferrous after reset, maybe the anodizing is considered a film? i also couldnt get it to zero on a machine surface titanium brick i have at home.... but then i could on a steel Ferrous knife. hmm...

as long as the readings are fairly normal... i only want to know oem specs so i dont get surprised as much as i did. i do believe bmw published 120 micron as their spec, and its the only one i know of.

[Mike Phillips]

I am not sure about the automotive world, but the large construction and mining machines we assemble at my work are transitioning to "paint before assembly" process where the actual supplier of a part (say a hood, fender, door, etc) will paint the piece and then send it to us for final assembly, therefore having 2 panels from different sources being every so slightly different is normal. This is all done for cost reduction, which is why I would not be too surprised if some automotive manufacturers use this process.


Perhaps someone could weigh in on that if they have any info.

I've been told that often times, the body panels like aerodynamic panels on the front bumper covers, air dams, side aerodynamic panels along the bottom of some cars and rear aerodynamic panels like wings, rear bumper covers of a car are manufactured and painted by outside contractors and then supplied to the OEM for assembly to the OEM bodies.

While the paint colors may match, the parts are being painted at offsite locations.

[Mike Phillips]

So, ive recently acquired a defelsko dft combo on the second hand market.

You're the guy that asked about buying a Defelsko PTG used in my article here,


All about the Defelsko Paint Thickness Gauge by Mike Phillips


Your post

Is there anything to look out for if buying second hand, it's out of its 2 year warranty period. One of my friend's buddy is letting his go since he moved away from detailing. So I have a chance of owning a Defelsko for a bit more than the Highline....

My recommendation...

I would test out the features like I show in the article above and then jump on this deal fast before he changes his mind.

The Defelsko is a super high quality tool that is also incredibly accurate. The copies are just that.... copies and you get what you pay for.

I'd say you are a very lucky man to get a quality PTG for whatever you paid for it.

I have an article coming up on how to use the Defelsko PTG as soon as I can get to it. The article is actually in the Rough Draft forum, (hidden, you can't see this forum like forum members cannot see the Moderators forum), so stay tuned.

and went about measuring paint on 2 cars... (fairly new... cars...)

would anyone happen to know where i can fine oem paint thickness specs?

I've NEVER seen any car manufacturer post any information like this. They simply don't care about you or me and our desire for this type of information. All they care about is getting you into the cubicle at a dealership and signing your John Henry across the dotted line.

my 16 fiesta shows the following...

jams ~55-60 micron
hood,roof,hatch ~80-88 microns
fenders, quarter panels, doors ~100-115 microns

12 civic
roof, trunk ~82-90 microns
rear quarter ~94-108 microns...

scary thin? my gauge zeros out on reset on my thin chinese veggie cleaver....

I relate to mils from my years of working for Meguiar's where we used a paint thickness gauge that read in mils.

There's a math formula to convert mils to microns and microns to mils

1 mil = 25.4 microns

Divide your micron number by 25.4 to get total mils

60 microns divided by 25.4 = 2.3 mils


So YES I would consider 2.3 mils VERY thin and I would not compound this panel.


The averages I've seen in my life for factory paint that is still all intact, that is some hack detailer has compounded the heck out of the paint would be a range of 5 mils to 9 mils. And of course, more is better. If I were to drill down I say the average mil for the average new vehicle would be a range of 6 to 7 mils.

But keep in mind, paint thickness is going to be all over the board, and it's also going to vary panel by panel. Also, these types of paint thickness gauges measure TOTAL FILM BUILD and the only film build that is important is the clearcoat layer or in the case of a single stage, the top coat layer.


And that's where the important idea shared in this article comes into play...


"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

[Mike Phillips]

interesting to know! i was very surprised and thought maybe my new to me positest was due for calibration....

i do notice i cant get a 0 reading on a flat piece of anodized aluminum Non ferrous after reset, maybe the anodizing is considered a film? i also couldnt get it to zero on a machine surface titanium brick i have at home.... but then i could on a steel Ferrous knife. hmm...

as long as the readings are fairly normal... i only want to know oem specs so i dont get surprised as much as i did. i do believe bmw published 120 micron as their spec, and its the only one i know of.

Do your own calibration befor using it. It's very easy and according to the company, very accurate.

Turn the Delfesco PTG on by using it, that is place the probe against something metal, this will turn it on.

Next, press the two side buttons AT THE SAME TIME - 3 times fast. You know, PRESS PRESS PRESS

You'll then see three dash lines do a little dance on the dispaly and when it's finished it's zeroed out.

For anyone reading this into the future I share all this AND MORE in my article here with LOTS of pictures


All about the Defelsko Paint Thickness Gauge by Mike Phillips

How to turn the gauge on
There is no on-switch. The gauge turns on automatically when you press the probe against a metal surface.


How to re-calibrate the gaugeI
If for some reason you want to re-calibrate the gauge yourself it's SUPER EASY - simply press the two side buttons at the same time 3 times fast. This will make the gauge do its own self test, calibration and reset. In the two pictures below you can see my thumb and forefinger on the buttons. I press them at the same time- three times fast and then you'll see a set of three lines or dashes flash as they move up and down the display. After the calibration the gauge will read 0.0 - The gauge is now re-calibrated and read to use or if you like, you can test the accuracy of the gauge using the shims.






Mike's comment...
Because it's fast and easy to re-calibrate the gauge I make it habit to re-calibrate the gauge before using it.

Congrats on the Defelsko PosiTest DFT Combo Electronic Paint Thickness Gauge.

This is a tool you can be proud to show off...

[Chramiji]

I have read and followed your procedure before using the gauge for the 3 press, and obtained those results, i also got the gauge since it behaved appropriately according to your article. I appreciate your sharing of knowledge and experience as always.

Unfortunately for the Fiesta, it is my new vehicle, so i can safely assume either ford and mazda share the same practices, or someone at the dealer went trigger happy on a few panels. however, with the jams around 60 microns, atleast there is a slight chance that the clear is still near or at around 1 mil converted.. i like microns because it seems like the resolution is higher (side-effects of being a mechanical engineer)

My friends civic has been detailed by a person or two... i will tread lightly on the paint and just leave and marks or swirl if it wont come out with a light pass or two.

[Chramiji]

I found some cool info here from BASF... https://www.basf.com/en/company/news...scratches.html

it seems like 115 microns is the... magic ideal, approximate number.

20um of e-coat (gray looking under primer)
30um of primer
15um of base
40um of clear

all approximate figures, so dont use this as a guideline, but kinda cool to know so i wanted to share my findings.