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  1. #21
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    Re: Greetings from Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by LSNAutoDetailing View Post
    HD Speed is at #2 on the cut scale, (although many, including myself will dispute that due to the amazing results it produces). But you won't hurt anything if you follow Mike's methods and section passes (6 to 8) in a 16"x16" area.

    Humidity will play a role with HD Speed, mainly because it's loaded with the sealant HD Proxy. My suggestion is to change out pads. I recommend about 6... You could get away with 4, but you'll see Speed gums up a pad pretty quickly. Use a moderate cut pad, and you will maximize results.


    For your newly painted section (due to the accident) you'll find that Speed cleans up nicely as the newer paint isn't as hard as OEM. On the flip side use quality Microfiber Towels to remove speed.... You don't want to put scratches in that you just took out. This will be prevalent on the newly painted area.


    Your path is just beginning....
    Can you point me to a good vid or article desciribing 'cutting scale' and the different types of compounds and polishes and how they rate?

    It's been SUPER HUMID and HOT. In the end, I'm going to have 5 Orange & 5 White LC CCS pads. I think you feel confident that these should do the trick, no? I'm going to start with white, but I'm imagining that you think Orange/3D will work good and maybe a pass of White/3D after?

    Do you feel any need to check out something with a higher cut? By the sound of it, you seem to stand by 3D and the results.

    I agree wholeheartedly that this is just me getting started.

    Thank you Paul.

  2. #22
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Greetings from Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by gatornek View Post


    I picked up:


    Porter Cable 6 inch DA w/6 inch backplate

    (3) 6.5 foam pads (light, medium, heavy cut)

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMys View Post

    First thing to do is ditch that 6 inch backing plate. It is too much mass for the Porter Cable (or any 8mm polisher) to handle.

    Get a 5" backing plate and 5.5" pads.

    Lake Country Flat pads are outstanding.

    Paul's right.

    The Porter Cable 7424 and all of the variations of this model are a tick on the weak side. Most, if not all 6.5" pads are also THICK pads.

    When you use a thick pad on a Porter Cable, even on speed 6 - the energy coming out of the tool is DISIPATED by the thick foam.

    This shows up your eyes as no or weak or slow pad rotation. You need that pad clipping along at a good rate of speed in order to remove defects in a timely an efficient manner.

    Get a 5" backing plate and if you want to get the MOST out of this tool then get THIN foam pads.


    Read the below, this is the 3rd time I've shared these two articles today.


    Check out these two articles and put what they show into practice from the very start.


    How to Monitor Pad Rotation? Mark Your Buffing Pads

    Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation







  3. #23
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Greetings from Miami

    Next....

    Watch the video in post #2 of this article,


    Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips




    Also - in the above article I have links to 5" backing plates,


    Lake Country 5" Backing Plate

    Griots Garage 5 Inch Vented Orbital Backing Plate


    and these THIN foam pads.


    Lake Country ThinPro Foam Pad System 5.5 Inch

    5.5 Inch BOSS Pads

    Meguiars 5 Inch DA Foam Discs


    Can't go wrong with any of the above but if you go with a Lake Country backing plate go with Lake Countgry pads as the velcro hook-n-loop system will match. Same goes for any backing plate and pad manufacturer. We all trust they know what they are doing and use matching hooks on the backing plates to correctly attach to the loops on the pads.

    Also - you need more pads when doing any type of correction work or when using a one step cleaner wax. Pads get wet, we call it pad saturation. You think a thick dry pad barely rotates, wait till you see how poorly a wet pad rotates.


    More pads is better....


    Here's another article,

    How many pads do I need to buff out my car?


    For anyone reading this into the future, I cover ALL these topics in my classes. I hear people say, well I'm not a pro detailer. Well - 60% of the people that take my class also are not pro detailers.

    You learn a lot. Imagine the guy that wrote all the articles living them in front of you?




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  5. #24
    Super Member Kamakaz1961's Avatar
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    Re: Greetings from Miami

    Welcome to AGO!

    Sonny Crockett
    Miami Vice
    CJ
    2013 Mustang GT w/Track Pack 6-Speed Manual
    Save the Manual!

  6. #25
    Super Member PaulMys's Avatar
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    Re: Greetings from Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Paul's right.

    The Porter Cable 7424 and all of the variations of this model are a tick on the weak side. Most, if not all 6.5" pads are also THICK pads.

    When you use a thick pad on a Porter Cable, even on speed 6 - the energy coming out of the tool is DISIPATED by the thick foam.

    This shows up your eyes as no or weak or slow pad rotation. You need that pad clipping along at a good rate of speed in order to remove defects in a timely an efficient manner.

    Get a 5" backing plate and if you want to get the MOST out of this tool then get THIN foam pads.


    Read the below, this is the 3rd time I've shared these two articles today.


    Check out these two articles and put what they show into practice from the very start.


    How to Monitor Pad Rotation? Mark Your Buffing Pads

    Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation






    I have some Boss pads and Thin Pros. You are completely right, Mike.

    Totally agree that you can get some more pressure (cutting) with these on a Free-spin 8mm.

    But I always go to my LC Flats because:

    A) I really LOVE how they work (for me). And,

    B) I never have any serious correcting to do as I always use the absolute BEST washing techniques (Learned right here on AGO).
    It is no coincidence that man's best friend cannot talk.

  7. #26
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Greetings from Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMys View Post

    I have some Boss pads and Thin Pros. You are completely right, Mike.

    Totally agree that you can get some more pressure (cutting) with these on a Free-spin 8mm.
    My personal theory and experience is that with short stroke free spinning random orbital polishers - thin is in.


    Thin is in does not apply to other free spinning random orbital polishers. It is easy to "assume" that what is good with one type of too will work just as good with another type of tool. But this is not my experience.



    But - with the PC fitted with a 5" backing plate? You bet. Get the white Griot's foam cutting pad and any quality compound and go to town.

    Anyone, and I mean ANYONE that has purchased, used and FELT these pads when they are brand new and know just how SHARP these form pads feel. In fact, they are stiffer and sharper than the Griot's BLUE foam cutting pad and anyone that's felt it knows the foam too is very sharp.

    The Buff & Shine Uro-Tech maroon foam cutting pad is very sharp, but I think I would still give the nod to the Griot's white foam cutting pad. And it's stiffer and much thinner.

    So slap one of these on a 5" BP and buzz that PC up to 11 and you can actually get some great cutting from it.






    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMys View Post

    But I always go to my LC Flats because:

    A) I really LOVE how they work (for me). And,

    B) I never have any serious correcting to do as I always use the absolute BEST washing techniques (Learned right here on AGO).
    I'm actually with you on this. I much prefer the tick thicker cushion for the actually buffing experience and most of the time if I'm using a PC I'm NOT doing major correction work. Either the car don't need it or I already knocked it out with a more powerful and faster tool.

    In my classes, I don't show Lake Country ThinPro pads for buffing paint. I may reference them so the class knows what they are an they are available, because they are so thin, I don't like letting a class tear into a SIV using the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polishers with pads that could actually do some damage.

    So I play it safe and use thicker pads. For years I showcased the 5.5" LC Flat Pads. Great pads. But because I showcase Lake Country pads for over 10 years, and a few years ago Autogeek brought in Buff & Shine pads, I switched the first tool I show in the morning to B&S pads as I show LC pads with FLEX tools.

    And "yes" the thicker Uro-Tech pads have no problem maintaining pad rotation because the GG6 has enough power to spin those pads without hesitation.


    Million ways to skin a cat....




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  9. #27
    Super Member PaulMys's Avatar
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    Re: Greetings from Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    My personal theory and experience is that with short stroke free spinning random orbital polishers - thin is in.


    Thin is in does not apply to other free spinning random orbital polishers. It is easy to "assume" that what is good with one type of too will work just as good with another type of tool. But this is not my experience.



    But - with the PC fitted with a 5" backing plate? You bet. Get the white Griot's foam cutting pad and any quality compound and go to town.

    Anyone, and I mean ANYONE that has purchased, used and FELT these pads when they are brand new and know just how SHARP these form pads feel. In fact, they are stiffer and sharper than the Griot's BLUE foam cutting pad and anyone that's felt it knows the foam too is very sharp.

    The Buff & Shine Uro-Tech maroon foam cutting pad is very sharp, but I think I would still give the nod to the Griot's white foam cutting pad. And it's stiffer and much thinner.

    So slap one of these on a 5" BP and buzz that PC up to 11 and you can actually get some great cutting from it.








    I'm actually with you on this. I much prefer the tick thicker cushion for the actually buffing experience and most of the time if I'm using a PC I'm NOT doing major correction work. Either the car don't need it or I already knocked it out with a more powerful and faster tool.

    In my classes, I don't show Lake Country ThinPro pads for buffing paint. I may reference them so the class knows what they are an they are available, because they are so thin, I don't like letting a class tear into a SIV using the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polishers with pads that could actually do some damage.

    So I play it safe and use thicker pads. For years I showcased the 5.5" LC Flat Pads. Great pads. But because I showcase Lake Country pads for over 10 years, and a few years ago Autogeek brought in Buff & Shine pads, I switched the first tool I show in the morning to B&S pads as I show LC pads with FLEX tools.

    And "yes" the thicker Uro-Tech pads have no problem maintaining pad rotation because the GG6 has enough power to spin those pads without hesitation.


    Million ways to skin a cat....



    Yes sir, Mike.

    Just to be clear, I use the GG6 with the LC flats. (Your recommendation years ago).

    Turned my PC into a 3" polisher a while back, and it excels at that task.

    And all of my experiences with these are a direct result of AGO, you personally, and the many fine members who exemplify this forum and took time out of their lives to help me.
    It is no coincidence that man's best friend cannot talk.

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  11. #28
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    Re: Greetings from Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post

    My personal theory and experience is that with short stroke free spinning random orbital polishers - thin is in.

    Thank you Mike!

    I sent the 6 inch back, and I ended up picking up a bunch of 5.5 inch LC CCS pads. Based on what you told me last night, I placed another order for 6 ThinPro pads (3 Orange, 3 White).

    I'm still only using the 3D, so I think will start with WhiteLCCCS/3D and work my way to OrangeThinpro/3D if I need to.

    I know I need A LOT of pads ( in particular if I'm trying to figure out the right combination of products that I need ), but in reality I think with my first job, I am going to focus on strictly the hood, roof, and trunk, as these seem to be the problem areas.

    In particular the hood had some work done at a paint & body shop and I have noticed that while water beads on the hood, it does not run off, and in the glaring sun, I can see holograms from when they must have uesd a rotary buffer (learned that in one of your vids).

    I also picked up some 3M tape to mark off my test spot, and some Snappy's cleaner for the pads afterwards.




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  13. #29
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Greetings from Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by gatornek View Post

    Thank you Mike!

    I sent the 6 inch back, and I ended up picking up a bunch of 5.5 inch LC CCS pads.
    Good deal. I always feel kind of bad when I know someone has bought 6" or 6"5" pads, any brand for a Porter Cable polisher or even some of the other weaker random orbital polishers on the market because I know if a person is just starting out they are going to have a bad experience trying to remove swirls simply because these types of tools cannot maintain good pad rotation - except on only the flattest of panels.

    It took too many decades for companies to catch up with the info on forums like this to finally introduce THIN foam pads. Here's an article I wrote that showcases the currently availabl options.


    5.5" SUPER THIN FOAM PAD OPTIONS for your Dual Action Polisher

    From left to right

    Lake Country 5.5" ThinPro foam pads

    Griot's Garage BOSS 5.5" foam pads

    Meguiar's 5.5" foam discs







    ANY of the above pads will work better than THICK larger foam pads. It's just a physics thing.





    Quote Originally Posted by gatornek View Post

    Based on what you told me last night, I placed another order for 6 ThinPro pads (3 Orange, 3 White).

    I'm still only using the 3D, so I think will start with White LC CCS/3D and work my way to Orange Thinpro/3D if I need to.
    That's a good approach. Chances are you'll find best correction and overall results using the orange pads. The orange pads, while a cutting foam pad are not overly aggressive PLUS remember that as a pad gets wet with product it becomes softer and less aggressive.

    A good rule of thumb is to test and start with foam "polishing" pads first and see if they'll get the job done. If not, you can always get more aggressive and switch to a foam "cutting" pad. The issue is, on softer paints foam cutting pads, just like microfiber pads, can and will micro-mar the paint.

    The word micro-mar is a kind fluffy way of saying scratch.

    So aggressive pads will scratch the paint.

    If the goal is to go around a car ONE TIME using a one-step cleaner/wax like the 3D HD Speed, if your pad is micro-marring the paint and due to this you have to re-do the car, that is go around the car a second time with a less aggressive pad to remove the micro-marring from the first pad. This is no longer a one-step process but now a two-step process. You defeat the concept of doing a one-step.

    This is why you TEST first. Then choose the type of pads for the hardness or softness of the paint in front of you and move forward. I cover this in my article here,



    Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips



    Quote Originally Posted by gatornek View Post

    I know I need A LOT of pads ( in particular if I'm trying to figure out the right combination of products that I need ), but in reality I think with my first job, I am going to focus on strictly the hood, roof, and trunk, as these seem to be the problem areas.
    Good plan. In my how-to book, under the chapter "Getting Started", if I remember correctly I recommend for someone new to machine polishing to JUST tackle the hood, roof or trunk lid. Start small. By doing this, even from start to finish you'll be into the project for about 3-4 hours.


    Here's what will happen,

    1: If using good abrasive technology you'll have a GREAT experience as you see the paint on your car transform from neglected to respected.

    2: You'll get a really good feel for "timing" as in how long it takes to do one panel and then how long it's going to take to do an entire car.

    3: You'll obtain a great sense of accomplishment and satisfaction - and this important as it will give you the re-enforcement and excitement to jump back in and finish the car.

    4: You'll get all of the above without a significant other or kids complaining you were in the garage all day working on your car. Been there, done that. Other people that are not familiar with the process don't know how much work and time that goes into this thing we call detailing.




    Quote Originally Posted by gatornek View Post

    In particular the hood had some work done at a paint & body shop and I have noticed that while water beads on the hood, it does not run off, and in the glaring sun, I can see holograms from when they must have used a rotary buffer (learned that in one of your vids).
    That's the norm for body shops. Sad but true.

    The 3D Speed and any free spinning random orbital polisher will remove the holograms. Too bad that body shop owners don't read this forum, I just threw them a free bone as to how to put out higher quality work and it's really not that hard.



    Quote Originally Posted by gatornek View Post

    I also picked up some 3M tape to mark off my test spot, and some Snappy's cleaner for the pads afterwards.

    That will work.

    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Taping off plastic trim is faster and easier than coming back later when you're tired and trying to scrub off compound, polish or cleaner/wax splatter wit a toothbrush.


    Be sure to take some good before pictures. You can never go back in time to get them once you put the pad to the paint.



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  15. #30
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    Re: Greetings from Miami

    Anyone know a good detailer in Miami - especially one who uses AutoGeek products.

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