Don't wax your car for at least 30 days!

[Perfections]

What I never understood about the outgasing process is how does the base coat outgas all the solvents with clear coat on top of it? Wouldn't that be about the same as putting a wax over the clear coat? I'm a noob and no chemist when it comes to this, just never really understood the physics behind it.

[Type[R]+]

Great write up!

I just had my left side, front and back, doors resprayed, and the bodyshop said wait 8 weeks before waxing because the paint will dry from the inside-out. (It's hot and humid here, just like Florida)

The fresh paint and clear coat tells me the rest of my car needs a polish. Bad! LOL!

It's hard to wait 8 weeks, but I'm going to.....

[Blackthorn One]

I'm trying but I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean by your wording? So instead of guessing I'll refrain from trying to comment...

From experience, I think it's safe to say that most painters know that most of their customer's don't know a lot about detailing in general and fresh paint dos and don't in specific, so they want to keep things simple and get the car back to the owner and then get back to work, not have an in-depth class or discussion on paint chemistry.

For this reason, when you pick up your car from your painter, either the painter or the shop manager or the owner of the shop will say something very generic like...

Hi Mr. Smith,

Here's your keys, thank you for your payment, recommend us to your friends and wait about 30 days before you wax your car.

Goodbye Mr. Smith come back if you need us again...

Make sense?

Sorry to chime in so late, but I know what he was saying when he said:

"My painter tells me body shops also say that because they don't want you close to the paint. In other words, they say it to cover up crummy work. He suggested the to go ahead and do whatever I'd like as soon as I'd like."

He was saying that a lot of body shops are sloppy, and they leave paint defects all over the car, that you only really notice when you look at the whole car up close, bit by bit, from like a foot away. He is suggesting that painter's tell you not to wax because you waxing will provide you with the opportunity to actually notice said defects, soon enough to perhaps be justified in taking the car back to have it redone.
I've had my car repainted a few times, and I can tell you that although it looks ok from a distance, the more I would look it over, the more little defects I would find, like pieces of dirt in the paint, or hairs, or dimples a mm deep. So he was saying that HIS painter is confident in his own work and so he has no concerns about the customer finding defects while he is waxing the car, as there aren't any. Therefore, he tells he customer to wax his car if he wants to.

[Blackthorn One]

What I never understood about the outgasing process is how does the base coat outgas all the solvents with clear coat on top of it? Wouldn't that be about the same as putting a wax over the clear coat? I'm a noob and no chemist when it comes to this, just never really understood the physics behind it.

That's a good question, and has to do with paint compatibility. The fact is that a lot of paints are not compatible with each other, and so if you spray a non compatible clear coat over a base coat, the clear coat can bubble later, maybe even a few months later. I saw a car with bubbles in the clear coat 3 inches in diameter.

[Mike Phillips]

What I never understood about the outgassing process is how does the base coat outgas all the solvents with clear coat on top of it? Wouldn't that be about the same as putting a wax over the clear coat? I'm a noob and no chemist when it comes to this, just never really understood the physics behind it.

I understand outgassing when it comes to solvent-evaporation single stage paints like sold school lacquers and enamels but it is harder to understand when it comes to catalyzed basecoat/clearcoat paint systems.

This is why I never claim to be a chemist and try very hard not to talk or type over my head.

I know that paint manufactures recommend a minimum of 30 days before you apply any product that acts to seal the paint and whether it's vital or not for modern paints it's usually a good rule of thumb to follow the paint manufactures recommendations over someone posting under an anonymous nickname on a discussion forum.

Also... most the time there's not an emergency situation in most people's lives where they feel the need to wax the car as soon as they get it home...

Modern clear coat paints are pretty tuff to start with and outside being egged or having a bird dropping land on the paint, which most wax and paint sealant won't protect against anyway, waiting 30 days is not a do or die situation. But each person can decide for themselves whether to wax before or after 30 days.

Sorry to chime in so late, but I know what he was saying when he said:

He was saying that a lot of body shops are sloppy, and they leave paint defects all over the car, that you only really notice when you look at the whole car up close, bit by bit, from like a foot away. He is suggesting that painter's tell you not to wax because you waxing will provide you with the opportunity to actually notice said defects, soon enough to perhaps be justified in taking the car back to have it redone.
I've had my car repainted a few times, and I can tell you that although it looks ok from a distance, the more I would look it over, the more little defects I would find, like pieces of dirt in the paint, or hairs, or dimples a mm deep. So he was saying that HIS painter is confident in his own work and so he has no concerns about the customer finding defects while he is waxing the car, as there aren't any. Therefore, he tells he customer to wax his car if he wants to.

All of the above sounds about right...

[DIEZLE]

In response to Perfections question, basecoats outgas extremely quickly, we call it flashing, they are alot thinner than the clear and are only sprayed thick enough to provide coverage. After each coat of base is sprayed it is allowed to flash and is actually dry enough to be tacked off with a tack rag before the next coat is applied. So all outgassing of the basecoat is complete before the clearcoat is applied. As far as the 30 days before waxing, it is just a general rule. A lot of different factors come into play with regards to how long it takes paints to comepletely outgas. I use three different clears, one for small jobs and jobs they need to get out quickly, one for medium sized jobs and larger jobs that don't get baked, and another clear for completes and near completes. The faster drying clears will outgas alot faster than the slower drying ones. Another big factor is the outside temperature, a car sitting in 90 to 100 degree temps is going to outgas alot faster than one painted in the middle of winter. Another factor is how thick the clearcoat is, what temerature reducer was added, which hardener was used and how long the painter waited between coats. There are so many variables that to be on the safe side,they just say 30 days. I'm sure that some clears, the faster ones, could be waxed in a week or less. I just custom painted my wifey's new Camaro, used a slow drying clear on it and have had to wait the standard 30 days before I can seal and wax it. It's been hard to wait but the last thing I want are problems down the road!

[DIEZLE]

To all the guys talking about shoddy paintwork. If you want a perfect paintjob, you need to take it to a QUALITY SHOP! Don't be afraid to tell them that you are going to be very picky and expect the work to be flawless! Ask questions about their paint facilities. A good shop will be proud to show you their paint shop, paint booths and will guarantee their work for as long as you own your car. Make sure your getting a basecoat-clearcoat top quality paint. Painters face a big problem with the air quality in the shop, anything floating around in the air will always seem to end up in the paint. It is extremely hard to get a flawless finish in an unsterile environment. I've worked in countless shops in my time and I have never seen a shop owner willing to put out the money it takes to keep a shop or paint booth in a perfect condition all the time. Before you guys complain too much you must realize that no shop has the facilities that the car manufacturers do. Custom show car paintjobs seldom come out perfect the first time they are sprayed, most times they are gone back over to fix minor imperfections until they look perfect!

[Perfections]

This is why I never claim to be a chemist and try very hard not to talk or type over my head.

I know that paint manufactures recommend a minimum of 30 days before you apply any product that acts to seal the paint and whether it's vital or not for modern paints it's usually a good rule of thumb to follow the paint manufactures recommendations over someone posting under an anonymous nickname on a discussion forum.

Also... most the time there's not an emergency situation in most people's lives where they feel the need to wax the car as soon as they get it home...

Modern clear coat paints are pretty tuff to start with and outside being egged or having a bird dropping land on the paint, which most wax and paint sealant won't protect against anyway, waiting 30 days is not a do or die situation. But each person can decide for themselves whether to wax before or after 30 days.

Thanks Mike for the info!!

In response to Perfections question, basecoats outgas extremely quickly, we call it flashing, they are alot thinner than the clear and are only sprayed thick enough to provide coverage. After each coat of base is sprayed it is allowed to flash and is actually dry enough to be tacked off with a tack rag before the next coat is applied. So all outgassing of the basecoat is complete before the clearcoat is applied. As far as the 30 days before waxing, it is just a general rule. A lot of different factors come into play with regards to how long it takes paints to comepletely outgas. I use three different clears, one for small jobs and jobs they need to get out quickly, one for medium sized jobs and larger jobs that don't get baked, and another clear for completes and near completes. The faster drying clears will outgas alot faster than the slower drying ones. Another big factor is the outside temperature, a car sitting in 90 to 100 degree temps is going to outgas alot faster than one painted in the middle of winter. Another factor is how thick the clearcoat is, what temerature reducer was added, which hardener was used and how long the painter waited between coats. There are so many variables that to be on the safe side,they just say 30 days. I'm sure that some clears, the faster ones, could be waxed in a week or less. I just custom painted my wifey's new Camaro, used a slow drying clear on it and have had to wait the standard 30 days before I can seal and wax it. It's been hard to wait but the last thing I want are problems down the road!

Thanks Diezle thats some good info as I'll be repainting my car in the future and don't want anything to go wrong

[DIEZLE]

You are welcome, Perfections, also you need to tell the shop that you detail your car often and probably have many (not bodyshop safe) products on your car. To be on the safe side, I would either not detail it for awhile before taking it in or try to remove most of it yourself. Washing your car,exspecially the jambs, will help make sure there are no fisheye problems. A highly detailed car requires me to do more prep work to remove silicones and sealers before I can paint and my time is your money if you know what I mean!

[Perfections]

You are welcome, Perfections, also you need to tell the shop that you detail your car often and probably have many (not bodyshop safe) products on your car. To be on the safe side, I would either not detail it for awhile before taking it in or try to remove most of it yourself. Washing your car,exspecially the jambs, will help make sure there are no fisheye problems. A highly detailed car requires me to do more prep work to remove silicones and sealers before I can paint and my time is your money if you know what I mean!

I'll be painting the car myself, done a few back in the day, and when I open my detail shop I want to be able to do minor body work and I figured what better advertisement would there be, being able to say I painted my car here's what kind of work you can except from me I'll probably pm you later and ask about paint guns, I've been out of that scene a while. Thanks again!