That "Grabby" feel - Thin vs Thick MF pads on Dual Action Polishers

[Mike Phillips]

That "Grabby" feel - Thin vs Thick MF pads on Dual Action Polishers


This topic comes up enough that I wanted to slice out a portion of one of our extreme makeovers to created a dedicated article for every time this topic comes up in the future.

That and today I'm talking to a guy in Norway on my Facebook page about which type of pad to use with the Rupes polishers.


Preface
Meguiar's really changed the way we look at polishing paint with dual action polishers when they introduced their DA Microfiber Correction System.

As I say in the video to Jason Rose and Mike Pennington,

It use to be we looked at microfiber as something we wipe products off the surface of paint and now we're using it to apply products to paint.


So in that context, it was a real game changer, that and enough correction ability to change the production detailing world from always relying on rotary buffers for swirling out cars.


Also, keep in and keep in mind this video was shot back in 2010 and the system was introduced at SEMA this same year. We posted the DA Microfiber Correction System video we shot here at Autogeek in February of 2011.

Meguiar's DA Microfiber Correction System





So that's a condensed history of where the microfiber pad came from. Since then other companies have introduced pads, but so far, no "system".


Using Microfiber Pads on Forced Rotation Dual Action Polishers

Thin is in...

That's a saying I coined a few years ago to point out that thin pads work better on tools like the Porter Cable, Meguiar's and Griot's dual action polishers and it's true. It's because thick pads tend to absorb and dissipate the energy that comes out of these types of tools and this shows up as a loss of pad rotation during correction and polishing steps.

Fact is, paint is removed best when a pad is rotating over the surface and not just jiggling or vibrating against the paint although I've seen a handful of people try to convince themselves and others this works.

So thin pads work better on dual action polishers than thick pads. You want proof? Look how thin the Meguiar's Microfiber cutting discs are, you know the discs that are responsible for doing the heavy correction step.

Here's the deal though, while thin pads work great on tools with a Free Rotating Spindle Bearing design, when you try to use thin pads on a forced rotation, forced oscillation tool like the Flex 3401 the feeling is grabby.

That is it feels like the pad is grabbing the paint and in turn, the tool then grabs or jerks your arms around and most people don't like how this buffing experience feels. Count me as one of them.

Thick Microfiber Pads
The grabby characteristic is not an issue with the Flex 3401 when you use a microfiber pad with a thicker foam backing. The thicker foam enables a smoother buffing action between the paint surface and the surface of the microfiber pad.

I figured this out when the Lake Country Microfiber pads were first sent out pre-production for field testing.

That's where the below thread comes in. I already knew this but I wanted a few others guys I trust and that are experienced behind all types of polishers to do some side-by-side testing with the,

• Same tool
• Same product
• Same car
• Different pads - Thin and Thick versions of the same pad

So below I've dissected the pertinent portions out of a write-up I created for a cool car we buffed out here at Autogeek.


2012 Dodge Challenger + Menzerna Color Lock Makeover



Test Spot - Comparing Thin vs Thick Lake Country Microfiber Pads

Next up we did some testing and I had Robert and Paul compare the Lake Country Ultra Microfiber Pads on identical tools, the Flex 3401.

The difference was that one polisher had the THICK LC Ultra Microfiber Pad and the other polisher had the THIN Ultra Microfiber Pad.

If you want to know which one works best I'll let you post the question and I'll let Robert and Paul tell you their opinioins...

After some testing we buffed out the car using Menzerna SI 1500 with Lake Country Ultra Microfiber Pads on both the Flex 3401 and the Griot's DA Polisher and then followed that using Lake Country 5.5" white foam polishing pads with Menzerna SF 4000 and then sealed the paint using Menzerna Color Lock machine applied using Lake Country 5.5" Blue Finishing Pads on Griot's DA Polishers.


Here's Robert testing out the thick LC Ultra MF Pads and Paul testing out the thin LC Ultra MF Pads




Robert is very good behind any polisher and always focuses on using good technique...




Look at the THICK foam core for this MF Pad...





Below is the thin MF pad as the foam core is much thinner than the thicker version...

NOTE: The linting is normal when breaking in a new LC Ultra Microfiber Pad




Then I had both guys switch keeping all other variables the same except the thickness and thinness of the foam backing of the pads.




Robert with the thin pad...



Paul with the thick pad...








And here's what Paul and Robert thought after trying both style pads on the Flex 3401

I found that the thick pad from LC was much easier to work with while using the forced rotation of the Flex 3401.

The LC pad was not grabby and contoured nicely with the body lines on the hood, front valance, plastic hood nose and wheel area.

Conversely the thin pad though nice was very grabby with any contour change in the body panel.

So if safe is the game I would opt for the thick pads, since I saw no real difference in the thick (LC) pads and the thin pads ability to cut into the clear coat.

The thicker pad seemed to glide right over the paint and even with the forced rotation of the Flex 3401 it was a pleasure to use!

So if you're trying to decide which microfiber pads to use with your Flex 3401, I'd recommend microfiber pads with a thicker foam backing as the buffing experience will be one similar to using foam pads, that is the pads will tend to glide over the surface instead of grab the surface.



On Autogeek.net

Lake Country Thick Core Ultra Microfiber Pads




And of course... the car came out beautiful...

[greatwhitenorth]

Great article very helpful!

[allenk4]

Link is for Lake Country Rotary Pads

Should be this for DA pads Lake Country Ultra-Fiber Dual Action Microfiber Pads

[Setec Astronomy]

Link is for Lake Country Rotary Pads

Should be this for DA pads Lake Country Ultra-Fiber Dual Action Microfiber Pads

No, that's the point, Mike is saying that for the Flex DA, since it's forced-rotation, you should use the thicker rotary pads.

[Mike Phillips]

Great article very helpful!

Thank you. Always tryng to help...

No, that's the point, Mike is saying that for the Flex DA, since it's forced-rotation, you should use the thicker rotary pads.

The thicker pads are marketed for use with rotary buffers and they also work better on this type of "direct drive" tool than thin pads.

Thanks Mike...

[theparmachine]

I have used the thick Buff n Shine pads and they grab like a mother. I have not used the LC pads.

[cmoneyinc]

Interesting. I saw a video from Adam's Polishes were there were demonstrating their MF pads on a PC 7424XP and they seemed pretty thick.

[Mike Phillips]

I have used the thick Buff n Shine pads and they grab like a mother. I have not used the LC pads.

With the Flex 3401?

One thing I find with microfiber pads on the Flex 3401 is it also helps to use a compound or polish that offers good lubricity with a long buffing cycle. Dryer products with a short buffing cycle don't work as well.

Interesting. I saw a video from Adam's Polishes were there were demonstrating their MF pads on a PC 7424XP and they seemed pretty thick.

Hey thin is in...

With all the articles and videos available for others to read, everyone catches up sooner or later...

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Goos stuff, Mike. What speed did they use with the thick pad? I assume the Meg's MF Finishing pad would work just as well.

[Mike Phillips]

Goos stuff, Mike. What speed did they use with the thick pad? I assume the Meg's MF Finishing pad would work just as well.

I'm pretty sure it was on the 5-6 speed setting, we had to de-swirl the car.

Meguiar's MF Finishing pad is still what I would consider a thin pad. The Optimum MF pads are thicker than the Meguiar's Finishing MF Pads and even these compared to the LC Rotary Buffer MF Pads are thin.