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  1. #201
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

    Quote Originally Posted by mudman View Post

    Mike,

    I did your steps to remove the oxidation on my door handles, it was turning pink.

    Would 105 be too aggressive to remove the swirls that are left behind with a DA polisher? I was thinking 205 with a white CCS pad might not be aggressive enough.
    My guess is you'll need the M105 for the same reasons, M205 won't be strong enough.

    Most people don't know what products are because they are not labeled like I wish they were as I describe in my how to book. RUPES does a GREAT JOB of labeling their products. Besides the name of the product on the label they also include these names that match what I write in my how-to book.

    It's as though they read my how-to book and shook their head and said, this is a good idea....
    1. Coarse compound
    2. Medium cut polish
    3. Fine cut polish
    4. Ultra fine cut polish

    EVERY product on the market will fall into one of these 4 groups but most companies don't figure out to put these simple words on the label so everyone is scratching their head trying to figure out what's in the bottle.

    Let my tie this back to M205 - It's a FINE cut polish. So it doesn't have a lot of abrading ability in and of itself. It was formulated to clean up any haze left my M105, which it does perfectly.



    Quote Originally Posted by mudman View Post

    I also have Ultimate compound, Swirl-X, and Scratch-X. Not sure which is more appropriate vs the 105.

    Thank you
    Gary
    I buffed out the cars on the Ultimate Compound and the Swirl X.

    Use either M105 or the Ultimate Compound and follow with the M205 or SwirlX and the paint should be ready to seal with a wax, sealant or coating after that.


    Mike Phillips
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  2. #202
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    Re: The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

    Thanks Mike! I really appreciate it.

  3. #203
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    Re: The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

    Can anyone possibly enlighten me on the hand buffing requirement?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post
    Hi Mike and other single stage paint experts,

    I'm still a bit puzzled by the hand buffing requirement for this process. I understand that one of the goals is to revitalise the paint by working in the oils in the Show Glaze but another is to also remove the oxidation with the abrasive action of the terry towel.
    Couldn't this be done using the Show Glaze with a VERY soft (eg LC Gold CCS) pad on a 8mm throw DA at speed 2 or 3 with no pressure?

    The main issue that I could think of is that you may need a lot of pads as they could quickly clog with the oxidized layer that is being removed.

    Or does the following mean that you would use up a lot of product with the pad swaps as well (although the pads wouldn't absorb the oils the same way the towels do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    Your towel acts like a filter
    Here I've unfolded the towel to show you what it looks like. As you can see the towel is completely saturated through and through with the polishing oils found in #7. The towel acts like a filter: as new product is placed onto the working face of the towel some product seeps through while the majority is worked into and over the paint after the towel reaches maximum saturation. The oils that filter through the towel are different than the original product that comes out of the bottle. If I were to refold the towel when applying the #7 I would be in essence changing the product as I would be introducing the fresh product out of the bottle to a different version of itself on a different fold of the towel. I could switch out the used towel for a fresh towel but then I would have to re-saturate the towel all over again and that would use up a lot of product.


    I just like to understand the physical processes involved a little better.

    Greg

  4. #204
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post

    Hi Mike and other single stage paint experts,

    I'm still a bit puzzled by the hand buffing requirement for this process.

    I understand that one of the goals is to revitalize the paint by working in the oils in the Show Glaze but another is to also remove the oxidation with the abrasive action of the terry towel.

    Couldn't this be done using the Show Glaze with a VERY soft (eg LC Gold CCS) pad on a 8mm throw DA at speed 2 or 3 with no pressure?
    No.

    Anyone that knows me and my work knows I'm a MACHINE GUY. There are very few things in the car detailing world that I would do by hand but restoring antique single stage paint is one of them.

    Sometimes there's simply no replacement for working by hand to accomplish the goal and the goal for the type of work I teach to do in this article is SAVING antique, single stage paint.

    If you mess up there's no second chance and what a lot of people miss when they read my article is that this technique is for people that have a car with old, antique OXIDIZED single stage paint and it's IMPORTANT to them to do everything they can to preserve the original and/or antique paint.

    The key word is important.

    In fact, if you click to the first page and read the third paragraph, out of frustration with people that don't read I made a portion of the first sentence RED to draw people's eyes to it.

    ( I get PM's and e-mails about this technique and I can tell the person only scanned the article they didn't read the article so they didn't pick up on the word important)


    I have guys that have replied to this thread or created their own thread where they simply took an old car with antique single stage paint and started out compounding it.

    To me, their project was not important to them. I would never do that to something that was important to me or the customer.

    Why?

    Because when working on OLD, antique single stage paint that has been neglected the paint is not only THIN it is dried out and BRITTLE.

    It only makes sense if it's IMPORTANT to you to start by revitalizing the paint using the oils in the #7 to make the paint saver to work on, (compound or polish), BEFORE working on it.

    Plus the oils bring out and restore the full richness of color to the pigments in single stage paint and this is something no other product will do and certainly could never be done to a basecoat/clearcoat paint job.


    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post

    Couldn't this be done using the Show Glaze with a VERY soft (eg LC Gold CCS) pad on a 8mm throw DA at speed 2 or 3 with no pressure?
    NO.

    A soft pad would not agitate the dead, oxidized paint like cotton terry cloth so you would not be SAFELY removing this layer of dead paint while at the same time gorging the paint with the oils in the #7.

    This is truly and old school craft that requires the art of hand rubbing.


    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post

    The main issue that I could think of is that you may need a lot of pads as they could quickly clog with the oxidized layer that is being removed.

    Or does the following mean that you would use up a lot of product with the pad swaps as well (although the pads wouldn't absorb the oils the same way the towels do.
    You will be so much better off to use the approach I share in this article.

    KISS = Keep it Simple Simon

    Besides that.... the chance to restore an antique single stage paint by hand rubbing is an experience you will never forget and will be more rewarding than you can imagine when you stand back and look at what "you" did, not a machine did.



    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post

    I just like to understand the physical processes involved a little better.

    Greg
    The physical process is simply that. A very physical process. This is truly something that is best understood by doing, not reading about.


    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post

    Can anyone possibly enlighten me on the hand buffing requirement?

    With this follow-up post I want to let you know I wasn't trying to avoid your question it's just I have limited typing time on the forum and I just haven't had the chance to type out an in-depth reply like I have above.

    Just to note... you can't get this kind of discussion on Facebook. It just doesn't work to type in their tiny little boxes.


    I hope I've answered your questions and I also hope you try my technique on whatever it is you're working on.

    On that note... what are you working on?


    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
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  5. #205
    Senior Member Pinpoint_Precision's Avatar
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    Re: The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

    Doesn't get any more precise than that, from the Professor himself. Always spot on. I am still amazed by his technique and " it never fails".
    Pinpoint Precision Auto Detailing
    Modesta Glass Coating | Suntek Ultra PPF

    Http://www.pinpointprecisionautodetailing.com

  6. #206
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    Re: The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

    I'm sorry if you felt that I only scanned your posts, Mike. I did read through the entire thread and read your posts twice to see if I could find an explanation for the difference between rubbing down with a terry towel vs using a DA with a soft pad to apply the Show Glaze and remove the oxidation. I was absolutely not implying that I was considering compounding (or even polishing) before the paint was revitalised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    NO.

    A soft pad would not agitate the dead, oxidized paint like cotton terry cloth so you would not be SAFELY removing this layer of dead paint while at the same time gorging the paint with the oils in the #7.

    This is truly and old school craft that requires the art of hand rubbing.
    This is the crux of what I was seeking - that even a soft pad would not safely remove the oxidation and work in the oils even though a terry towel seems a lot more abrasive than a soft pad to me. I wonder if the long strokes are the key to the difference - maybe the longer interval between contact with each paint section allows the paint to recover and not abrade as with the repeated contact with the action of a DA, even with a soft pad.

    As I said before, I am interested in the physical process - maybe I should have said the underlying physical process which makes the towelling different. My science background is at fault here

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    I hope I've answered your questions and I also hope you try my technique on whatever it is you're working on.

    On that note... what are you working on?


    Thanks again for the additional information. I have a friend with a 22 year old car that has single stage metallic paint that is worryingly thin - 70 microns (2.8 mils) at best and half that at the worst and badly oxidised in many places. He mentioned this thread to me which revealed a side of detailing that I had not previously encountered so I wanted to know more.

  7. #207
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    Re: The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

    It's very similar to this except the paint is in worse condition



    Sorry for the 2nd post but I can't edit my previous one

  8. #208
    Junior Member Harsh's Avatar
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    Re: The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

    Hi Mike,
    I attached a few pictures of the car I will be asking you about in my question.

    To start, I read the write up in its entirety, it was nothing but the best, which is what we always get from you. Thanks!

    I own most of the Wolfgang line and that is what I plan to use on my car, but I wanted to ask some questions before I dive into this.

    I recently purchased this 1992 Mustang, I owned it about 20 years ago, and it is mine again. I am interested in restoring the factory single stage paint, it is important to me to keep it original. The paint looks to be in good shape without major oxidation, it has always been garaged and not driven much, it has 72,000 miles on it. So my main goal really is to condition the paint, get some of the oils back into to it as you talk about in your write up, and I am sure I can improve the look of it, but it really does look very good already.

    I like your idea of using the least aggressive product to get the job done. After reading your post, below are the steps and products I am thinking about performing, but I wanted to check with you to see if I should skip any steps, or not use any of the products mentioned. Not for the sake of time, but for the sake of my paint (least aggressively speaking). I want to have it look great, the best it can, but I don't want to over do it. FYI, I have a Flex and foam pads.

    1. I plan to wash with Wolfgang Autobathe
    2. Plastic baggy test - then Clay Bar with Wolfgang products
    3. Meguiars Show Car Glaze #7, following your directions of leaving it sit over night.
    **Question for step 4 - I am not sure if I need to use the Meguiars M80 Speed Glaze. The heavy cutting pad sounds scary to me, and I am not so sure I need to do this step considering the overall good condition of the paint. I also have some Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0, I was wondering if that would be better or worse to use. Again, maybe I should consider skipping this step all together.
    5. Wolfgang Finishing Glaze with a foam pad.
    6. Wolfgang Paint Work Polish Enhancer (I think this will take the place of the XMT 360 you mentioned)
    7. Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0.
    8. Wolfgang Fuzion Wax.

    So, this is what I was considering. I have been following you for years, just about got a big enough class together in St. Louis back when you were traveling for classes with Meguiars. Unfortunately I have never been able to make it to a class of yours. Maybe one day. Until then I would greatly appreciate your advice on this one. I feel very lucky to have gotten this car back after all of these years and I want to make sure I am doing the best job I can to keep it looking new.

    I look forward to your reply.

    Blayne
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints-pickup-day-jpg   The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints-pickup-day-2-jpg   The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints-hood-1-jpg-jpg   The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints-hood-3-jpg-jpg   The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints-trunklid-1-jpg-jpg   The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints-trunklid-2-jpg-jpg  

  9. #209
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post

    I'm sorry if you felt that I only scanned your posts, Mike.
    Nope. Never "felt" that about you. What I wrote above is accurate however in that people do tend to scan instead of read and I know this by the questions I get asked or the comments I read in the blogosphere. I never directed the remark about scanning at you just pointed it out in general after what I've seen from posting how-to articles to the Internet since 1994, 20 years now.


    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post

    As I said before, I am interested in the physical process
    All I can say is sometimes there's just no replacement for good old fashioned elbow grease and experience.

    I've used a lot of elbow grease in my life rubbing out antique single stage paint, then went on to write this article show others and from this journey have gained a lot of experience.

    Everyone can do as they please... as for me? When I have a project car with antique, single stage paint I'm going to treat it the same way that has proven to be successful my entire life now and that's carefully starting the process by hand rubbing. Machine work may used later in the project but the first step will be working by hand.



    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post

    Thanks again for the additional information.
    No problemo.... when you're a guy that polishes paint and teaches others to polish paint and you can also speed type, it's what you do.


    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post

    I have a friend with a 22 year old car that has single stage metallic paint that is worryingly thin - 70 microns (2.8 mils) at best and half that at the worst and badly oxidized in many places.
    Just work carefully. When I rubbed out Wayne Carini's 1953 Hudson there were places already in the paint (before I worked on it), where you could see the underlying black primer.

    I documented this via my trusty dusty camera... the visible thin spot was on the side of the passenger front fender. (I'm sure there were plenty of invisible thin spots too)





    Here's a thin spot where you can see black primer showing through...





    Quote Originally Posted by kaanage View Post

    He mentioned this thread to me which revealed a side of detailing that I had not previously encountered so I wanted to know more.
    Please tell him I say thank you for sharing this article with you and my guess is others too.


    Just proceed with caution and do the best you can and I'm confident the results will be as good as it can get.

    You stated this car has single stage metallic paint. As pointed out in this article, this is the most difficult type of paint to restore. So don't expect miracles, especially if the paint already looks like it's past the point of no return. (That's just 1 paint condition category I list in my how-to book)

    From experience the most you can hope for can only be attained by the process laid out in this article.

    Also, read this article and share it with your buddy, it puts these types of projects into the proper perspective.

    "Taking your car's paint to it's maximum potential"


    Good luck. Be sure to take GREAT before pictures like I show here,

    The power in the after shots is created in the before shots


    I'm already looking forward to the after shots.


    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
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  10. #210
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    Re: The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh View Post
    Hi Mike,
    I attached a few pictures of the car I will be asking you about in my question.

    To start, I read the write up in its entirety, it was nothing but the best, which is what we always get from you. Thanks!

    I own most of the Wolfgang line and that is what I plan to use on my car, but I wanted to ask some questions before I dive into this.

    I recently purchased this 1992 Mustang, I owned it about 20 years ago, and it is mine again. I am interested in restoring the factory single stage paint, it is important to me to keep it original. The paint looks to be in good shape without major oxidation, it has always been garaged and not driven much, it has 72,000 miles on it. So my main goal really is to condition the paint, get some of the oils back into to it as you talk about in your write up, and I am sure I can improve the look of it, but it really does look very good already.

    I like your idea of using the least aggressive product to get the job done. After reading your post, below are the steps and products I am thinking about performing, but I wanted to check with you to see if I should skip any steps, or not use any of the products mentioned. Not for the sake of time, but for the sake of my paint (least aggressively speaking). I want to have it look great, the best it can, but I don't want to over do it. FYI, I have a Flex and foam pads.

    1. I plan to wash with Wolfgang Autobathe
    2. Plastic baggy test - then Clay Bar with Wolfgang products
    3. Meguiars Show Car Glaze #7, following your directions of leaving it sit over night.
    **Question for step 4 - I am not sure if I need to use the Meguiars M80 Speed Glaze. The heavy cutting pad sounds scary to me, and I am not so sure I need to do this step considering the overall good condition of the paint. I also have some Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0, I was wondering if that would be better or worse to use. Again, maybe I should consider skipping this step all together.
    5. Wolfgang Finishing Glaze with a foam pad.
    6. Wolfgang Paint Work Polish Enhancer (I think this will take the place of the XMT 360 you mentioned)
    7. Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0.
    8. Wolfgang Fuzion Wax.

    So, this is what I was considering. I have been following you for years, just about got a big enough class together in St. Louis back when you were traveling for classes with Meguiars. Unfortunately I have never been able to make it to a class of yours. Maybe one day. Until then I would greatly appreciate your advice on this one. I feel very lucky to have gotten this car back after all of these years and I want to make sure I am doing the best job I can to keep it looking new.

    I look forward to your reply.

    Blayne
    I'm sure Mike will respond to you better than I, but to answer your questions I will take a first pass.

    First off, from your pics it looks like your paint is still in pretty decent shape, so you may not need to take the same steps outlined in his article.

    1. Wash with Wolfgang Autobathe OK
    2. Plastic baggy test - then Clay Bar with Wolfgang products OK
    3. Meguiars Show Car Glaze #7, following your directions of leaving it sit over night. OK, BUT WITH THIS COMMENT: YOU MAY NOT NEED TO USE A TERRY CLOTH TOWEL AS YOUR APPLICATION TOOL. SEEING AS YOUR PAINT IS NOT HEAVILY OXIDIZED YOU WON'T NEED TO SCRUB USING THE TOWEL AND M7. APPLY HEAVY W/ A FOAM APPLICATOR OR SOFT CLOTH. YOU COULD DO 2 COATS IF YOU WANT. LET IT SIT AS PLANNED.
    **Question for step 4 - I am not sure if I need to use the Meguiars M80 Speed Glaze. The heavy cutting pad sounds scary to me, and I am not so sure I need to do this step considering the overall good condition of the paint. I also have some Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0, I was wondering if that would be better or worse to use. Again, maybe I should consider skipping this step all together. GO W/ THE LEAST AGGRESSIVE METHOD. YOU MIGHT JUST SKIP THIS. TRY THE FINISHING GLAZE ON A TEST PANEL 1ST.
    5. Wolfgang Finishing Glaze with a foam pad. OK - SEE ABOVE.
    6. Wolfgang Paint Work Polish Enhancer (I think this will take the place of the XMT 360 you mentioned) NOT REQUIRED. YOU'VE DONE ALL THE WORK ABOVE, NO NEED FOR THIS PRODUCT/STEP.
    7. Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0. OK
    8. Wolfgang Fuzion Wax. OK
    "The shortest and surest way to live with honor in the world is to be in reality what we would appear to be." --- Socrates

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